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If They Are So Scared, How Come We're The Dead Ones?
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Posted By:
carptrash at 09/02/2008 3:03:56 PM
Comment:
I stumbled across this piece more-or-less by accident and while it did not make pretty or easy reading, it was compelling enough for me to read in entirety. As a while man I believe that it is a good thing for me to be reminded of these things and your approach to the subject helped me do that. Thanks. Einar -
Posted By:
deekin at 07/10/2008 8:00:36 PM
Comment:
If these cops feel its necessary to shoot Black people out of fear, why arent they using their firearms training to cause non-life threatening injuries? They can shoot someone in the arm if they are reaching for something. I'll tell you why not. Its because a dead person cant testify in court about how the officers shoot them. The white cop firing 31 of the 50 shots into Bell's body? Whoah! That's straight up murder! That means that he was so scared that he emptied a full clip into Bell's body and still stopped and reloaded his gun at least once to empty a second clip into Bell. Nonsense call it what it is! Genocide on a small scale. If black men were to start murdering cops on sight out of fear of brutality and being killed, we wouldnt be allowed to get away with that. Its just racist hypocrisy. -
Posted By:
TheyCallMeBruce at 07/10/2008 6:38:29 PM
Comment:
"How Come We're The Dead Ones?"
Because you're cherry-picking data, keeping only the exceptions that support your ludicrous contention, that's why.
Each year in the U.S. there are more than ten murders committed by black offenders against white victims for every one committed by white offenders (police included) against black victims.
I won't try to draw any conclusions from those numbers other than to point out the obvious and incontrivertible fact that your assertion of an epidemic of paranoia-driven white-on-black shootings is flat-out bulls**t. Statistically speaking, a random white person has a much greater chance of being shot, mugged, or raped by a random black person he or she passes in the street than vice versa. Those are cold, hard, facts, and screaming "Racist! Racist!" doesn't change them one bit. -
Posted By:
slew59 at 07/08/2008 4:44:26 PM
Comment:
i am brown. i'm not really scared of too much. i walk in safety wherever i go. i don't carry a gun. sometimes i carry a small knife, but only to clean my fingernails. when i lived in the big city, i carried a small knife, only to put my fingers around it to feel safe. i walked alone a lot. i never had to use it for any type of aggression. i'm not a fighter, but people still don't mess with me. i thought i looked nice, but i must look mean, so they leave me alone. i'm female. i'm 5'6". i weigh in at 175. i've walked with black people, i've walked with white people, i've walked with brown people. for some reason, i fit in with all. the only person i saw that was afraid of me to cause her to run and hide was a girl who my exhusband used to run to. -
Posted By:
xyz123 at 07/08/2008 4:10:08 PM
Comment:
Oh come on. "His black body". Who's the racist here? I don't care who you are, if you charge cops with a car in the dark in the wee hours of the morning your going to get shot no matter what your color. You use the term "murder" a lot, but these men were aquited.
Yes some of the officers involved where indeed black, so are you calling them racist as well.
"He was unarmed, but the elite street-crime unit fantasized that he was grabbing a gun when he reached for his wallet. Once again, the cops' bizarre perceptions about Diallo's threat were enough to clear them of wrongdoing."
This was more like a lack of comon sense of the Diallo's part. It's tragic to be sure, but don't go reaching into your pockets and making sudden movements. Comon sense 101. -
Posted By:
all as one at 07/08/2008 2:50:17 PM
Comment:
Ifind your artical some what amusing, as a typical black man you always asume that black men are always innocent when a white officer is involved put two none white officers into the situation and again the white guy shot 31 times out of 50 shots .It is people like you and al sharpton and rev jackson that fuel the fires of hate . what people should be focusing on is the death of this youg man not who was white , black, and latino. where was the artical on reginald denny being pulled out of his truck during the california riots and being beaten almost to death because he was white.you have people like clarence thomas,bill cosby and any black person who say's black people need to take responsibilty and ther called uncle toms .people forget al sharpton back in the 80s accused white officers of raping tawana brawley. which turned out to be false. Or rev jackson called ny hymie town, what if a white politican came out and said ny was full of niggers who do you think would be out there protesting for that politican to resign, the same two who are the worst bigets around. instead of media always using the word the first black man to do this or that the should honor him or her as a person not a color, this society wil never be color blind until all people come together,and stop using color for everything that is wrong and start focusing on people taking responsibilty for what they do with there lives and not the color of there skin.thak you vincent fontana -
Posted By:
ecarden at 07/08/2008 4:40:48 AM
Comment:
swokla, don't be an ass.
However, according to the NYT's: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E3D81F3AF93AA25756C0A9679C8B63 African-Americans make up about 60% of those identified by the suspects, so the statistic of 66% isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. It's basically what you'd expect.
Is there racism in the NYPD?
Beats the hell out of me, I'm a white guy from Washington, but this isn't proof. This is insinuation, and not very good insinuation.
Example: "He was unarmed, but the elite street-crime unit fantasized that he was grabbing a gun when he reached for his wallet. Once again, the cops' bizarre perceptions about Diallo's threat were enough to clear them of wrongdoing." Umm...do you imagine that the NYPD has x-ray vision and can see through his clothing to what he was grabbing for, but they just chose not to turn it on?
There aws something else I wanted to say...what was it...
Oh, right, swokla, grow the *** up. -
Posted By:
Coonie_in_SC at 05/26/2008 8:57:27 PM
Comment:
I am white, and I have been burglarized by blacks, assaulted by blacks, and had a black man try to break in to my home while I was there alone. At only 22% of the population the blacks commit 85% of the crime. This is the reason they are targeted by the cops. -
Posted By:
caliguy55 at 04/30/2008 2:13:48 PM
Comment:
I am white, but I completely agree with the author of this article. Having been born in south central Louisiana, I've come face-to-face with racism, prejudice and intolerance practiced by my former white friends and neighbors. It's abhorrent to hear these people argue that there is no such thing as racism in America in the same breath they use to spread their ignorance and hatred. Believe me, I've got first hand knowledge of what a majority of the white people in the south think about black people and it isn't pretty. Then, these hypocrites turn around and pretend to be the most fervent Christians on the face of the Earth. Well, I know that Jesus Christ would be appalled at the thinking of these people. And, I'm just happy I won't be in their shoes when they face their Maker. That also will not be pretty. But, until then, all that white people like me can do is try to make a difference by changing the thoughts and attitudes of the racist (black and white) in this country. By the way, I'll be voting for Barack Obama in the fall, if he's the Democratic nominee. If not, Hilary Clinton will get my vote. As far as I'm concerned, the GOP is about the worst racist organization in existence. -
Posted By:
swokla at 04/30/2008 12:08:37 PM
Comment:
You say "whites lived in perpetual terror of the Africans they'd imported", let us just remember that blacks started the slave trade, it was the blacks who were trading us their relatives, and stolen slaves just to make a dime. That practice was in place long before the whites were encouraged to take blacks to America. The Black race was tires of their run-aways from black trade, they sold blacks to whites in order to free their lands of runners ! -
Posted By:
swokla at 04/30/2008 12:04:24 PM
Comment:
You say "whites lived in perpetual terror of the Africans they'd imported", Let us not forget...the blacks STARTED the slave trade, long before the whites tookup the practice. -
Posted By:
seamus at 04/30/2008 8:18:58 AM
Comment:
I must say I thoroughly enjoy the blanket assessments about how white people think, whom white people fear, and what white people believe. Now that we all understand the singularity and monolithic nature of white theory and praxis it should be easy to develop a counter strategy that accommodates this circumstance. Thanks for yet another contribution in reactive and anti-intellectual discourse. -
Posted By:
StAndrewsPG at 04/30/2008 6:24:38 AM
Comment:
This article makes an excellent point. Having moved to Scotland from Florida it has been shocking at times to see how blatant racial stereotypes and mistreatment can be in a place where there is less experience, and thus less reticence with racial issues. People ordering Chinese food are going for a "chinky," black people are sometimes called "darkies," and my Asian friends were very rudely treated by bus drivers and I've heard Asians generally referred to as "Nee Hows" after the Chinese word for hello. Somehow I think that the hard part for people in the US is that there is a fear that exposing injustice will cause reprisals and that there is a certain degree of race fatigue. To these people I would simply point to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa and the amazing work it did to heal divisions of a more recently and blatantly racist society. What America needs is the same, first TRUTH, then RECONCILIATION. -
Posted By:
tkirk at 04/30/2008 5:35:54 AM
Comment:
my first time viewing The Root...I see a great deal of frustration,anger, and contempt here...and it is easily understood...truth is truth...but I see little topics of forgiveness...I see a lot of racial prejudice...this arena needs more Jesus...PERIOD! -
Posted By:
maf67 at 04/29/2008 8:27:40 PM
Comment:
Two of the three cop involved were black, right? Am I missing something here? -
Posted By:
Lester-K at 04/29/2008 6:36:36 PM
Comment:
On May 7, 1931, the most sensational manhunt New York City had ever known had come to its climax. After weeks of search, ???Two Gun??? Crowley ??? the killer, the gunman who didn???t smoke or drink ??? was at bay, trapped in his sweetheart???s apartment on West End Avenue.
One hundred and fifty policemen and detectives laid siege to his top-floor hideway. They chopped holes in the roof; they tried to smoke out Crowley, the ???cop killer,??? with tear gas. Then they mounted their machines guns on surrounding buildings, and for more than an hour one of New York???s fine residential areas reverberated with the crack of pistol fire and the rat-tat-tat of machine guns. Crowley, crouching behind an overstuffed chair, fired incessantly at the police. Ten thousand excited people watched the battle. Nothing like it had ever been seen before on the sidewalks of New York.
When Crowley was captured, ???
This is how Dale Carnegie's classic 1937 international best seller, "How to Win Friends and Influence People," begins (Part One, Chapter One). In recent years, I've attempted to re-read this book, but I can never get past that last phrase: "When Crowley was captured, ...." Captured? But of course -- Crowley was Irish, not African American. The fact that he was shooting at the police with two guns and was a known murderer and cop-killer did not frighten the police enough that they should kill him on the spot.
There is a war against African American men. We need strategy, not reaction. -
Posted By:
psychoactive1 at 04/29/2008 5:11:17 PM
Comment:
It's a sad statement that in our 'enlightened' 21st Century, we have so much work to do and folly to overcome... for all races and people. -
Posted By:
psychoactive1 at 04/29/2008 5:08:27 PM
Comment:
It's a sad state that in the "Enlightened" 21st Century, we still have so much work to do and folly to overcome... for all races and people. -
Posted By:
SethTE at 04/29/2008 5:05:41 PM
Comment:
http://sethandray.wordpress.com How many blacks get nervous when groups of black men approach? It's easy to criticize the officers, but how many of us are targets the way they are? Clearly, they crossed a line firing so many times, but there's more to the story than what we react to. http://sethandray.wordpress.com -
Posted By:
jc6466 at 04/29/2008 3:29:41 PM
Comment:
Who???s scared? The grim reality is over half of all murder victims in the U.S. (about 7,500 in 2006, according to FBI statistics) are African Americans. Another unspeakably grim truth is that nearly all of these murders are committed by ???brothers??? from the very same African American community. After adding all other violent crime, including forcible rape and aggravated assault, (again, trends regarding victims and perpetrators for these types of crimes follow murder statistics), is it any wonder that the segment of the population who is truly scared witless and who clamors most vociferously for police protection is the African American community? -
Posted By:
Kiki11 at 04/29/2008 3:09:21 PM
Comment:
We need to start legislative campaigns to change laws and correct the attitudes of these officers. In the same manner that the Amber alert was passed and the various laws passed for white children that are victims of violence. -
Posted By:
edict at 04/29/2008 3:02:41 PM
Comment:
I think the article makes good points, though I disagree with the insistence on the term "murder".
The deaths were likely the result of gross negligence on the part of the officers. I believe they should be accountable on a count like 'manslaughter'. The 'murder' charge requires that they purposefully killed. Do you really believe that? -
Posted By:
jw344 at 04/29/2008 2:15:17 PM
Comment:
Just wondering... if statistics suggest black men are the ones perpetuating gun violence on a community, is it really a "perceived threat" or an "irrational fear"? What happened to Sean Bell is an avoidable and unnecessary tragedy, but shifting all responsibility to the police, calling it "murder", and blaming an allegedly racist society is simply dumbing down the facts to suit an agenda. These young man weren't exactly coming out of the library or church at the time, were they? Strip clubs -- regardless of the race of their clientele -- are seedy, scummy places located in the worst parts of every town in EVERY country. Gee, wonder why these police officers were nervous. Black, white, or brown, the clientele in places such as this aren't exactly society's finest. Even poor Sean Bell knew this: that's why he tried to run. He wasn't shocked to see someone with a gun outside a strip club. So he tried to flee. It was a horrible, horrible accident. But not a crime. Stop trying to create racism... there's enough still out there without you inventing more. -
Posted By:
jc6466 at 04/29/2008 2:13:59 PM
Comment:
Who???s scared? The grim reality is over half of all murder victims in the U.S. (about 7,500 in 2006, according to FBI statistics) are African Americans. Another unspeakably grim truth is that nearly all of these murders are committed by ???brothers??? from the very same African American community. After adding all other violent crime, including forcible rape and aggravated assault, (again, trends regarding victims and perpetrators for these types of crimes follow murder statistics), is it any wonder that the segment of the population who is truly scared shitless and who clamors most vociferously for police protection is the African American community? -
Posted By:
linnyloub at 04/29/2008 2:03:43 PM
Comment:
All "LAW ENFORCEMENT" have too much power nad not made accountable for any actions. -
Posted By:
Undercover Black Man at 04/29/2008 1:33:31 PM
Comment:
"Then and now, white paranoia about black violence is the emotional toll America pays for the racial caste system it has built."
This is one of the most intellectually dishonest essays I have ever read.
Mr. Wright leaves out some inconvenient facts. For instance, black people commit 52 percent of all murders in the U.S. (while constituting only 13 percent of the population).
If you're into racial comparisons, blacks commit murder at a SEVEN TIMES HIGHER rate as whites. Given the gross disproportion of black violent crime in America, you're gonna have a hard time selling that "white fantasy" stuff to intelligent people.
Oh, and if you're truly concerned about the "slaughter" of black folks, why don't you focus on HOMICIDE? It's the No. 1 cause of death for African-American men between the ages of 15 and 34.
And it's not cops doing the killing. Black people kill other black people at the rate of 20 PER DAY in this country.
So instead of trying to undermine the police, why not focus on the defining crisis of black life today: Black violent crime. -
Posted By:
TinFoilAssHat at 04/29/2008 1:01:30 PM
Comment:
This is a great article. From my perspective a lot of suffering is allowed to happen when we don't take seriously those things that can't be easily measured or don't have easily discernible forensic trails for lack of a better term. When you start talking about the impact of psychological bias you're in a world where everything is conjecture and few people will admit to their beliefs, even though they may know that their beliefs are responsible for their actions. How do you legislate against this, or move to change it when those who you'd have to convince (judges, politicians, etc) can just decide to ignore the issue for lack of 'evidence'? Well, what you get in this case is a black underclass that faces great obstacles in leaving their circumstances behind. It's a gulag imposed by a weak society that is too scared or self-interested to effect change. And the most depressing part is that it won't change unless society itself recognizes the error of its ways. Blacks didn't free themselves from slavery after all. It took some extraordinary whites, however questionable their true motives were, to free them. And that's the tragedy of this situation. If those kinds of extraordinary personalities are needed to make us look at our own fears now then I fear that blacks are in for a very very long oppression. -
Posted By:
TinFoilAssHat at 04/29/2008 12:58:08 PM
Comment:
This is a great article. From my perspective a lot of suffering is allowed to happen when we don't take seriously those things that can't be easily measured or don't have easily discernible forensic trails for lack of a better term. When you start talking about the impact of psychological bias you're in a world where everything is conjecture and few people will admit to their beliefs, even though they may know that their beliefs are responsible for their actions. How do you legislate against this, or move to change it when those who you'd have to convince (judges, politicians, etc) can just decide to ignore the issue for lack of 'evidence'? Well, what you get in this case is a black underclass that faces great obstacles in leaving their circumstances behind. It's a gulag imposed by a weak society that is too scared or self-interested to effect change. And the most depressing part is that it won't change unless society itself recognizes the error of its ways. Blacks didn't free themselves from slavery after all. It took some extraordinary whites, however questionable their true motives were, to free them. And if those kinds of extraordinary personalities are needed to make us look at our own fears then I fear that blacks are in for a very very long oppression. Vote Obama. -
Posted By:
dfgrayb at 04/29/2008 12:50:32 PM
Comment:
Kai Wright: Ever been a cop? We depend on police to keep us safe, and assume they can be ready, at a moment's notice, to accurately size up a situation flawlessly that they have never experienced before. Ever had to do that yourself? Where the outcome was life or death?
The reason Sean Bell is dead is because there are many bad guys in this world who perpetrate violence. We ask some people to protect us, and assume they can do a perfect job. Do you ever make mistakes in your job? Who doesn't?
What is completely ignored in all of this is that those policemen had no motive for killing Bell. Do you think that's what they set out that night to do? Find a black man and kill him? Is that what those black cops were thinking? They were doing an impossible job, a thankless one, and one that the public never allows mistakes to be made, or else it is a sign of racism, or ugliness.
In my hometown about 5 years ago, a white cop shot and killed a white driver of a car who he thought was headed toward him. Almost identical situation. Yet, no cries of racism were raised. Why not?
Crime and violent people create the need for policemen. Policemen make mistakes at times, deadly ones. How often are their split second decisions correct? The type of thinking that is reflected in your piece here evaluates their actions in only one context--the terrible effects of ugly racism on people's lives. Yet there are other contexts you ignore--other contexts that might lead to entirely different reactions by your readers. -
Posted By:
indiansummer at 04/29/2008 12:28:59 PM
Comment:
Why did one of the police officers have to fire two clips of bullets at the suspects? Was he a bad shot? Were the suspects firing back at him? Were they trying to escape? Was he so scared he didn't know what he was doing or was so frightened he was going to die, he panicked? What?? -
Posted By:
indiansummer at 04/29/2008 12:23:50 PM
Comment:
Why did one of the police officers have to fire two clips of bullets at the suspects? -
Posted By:
maf67 at 04/29/2008 12:15:42 PM
Comment:
Weren't two of the three police officers black themselves? I saw photos in the New York Times and it appeared that only one of them was white. Are black men afraid of other black men? -
Posted By:
jb4275 at 04/29/2008 12:10:33 PM
Comment:
This reaction to an unwarranted fear, is the only response they feel remaining to keep Black men under control....kill them. -
Posted By:
jb4275 at 04/29/2008 12:08:39 PM
Comment:
This reation to an unwarrented fear, is the only response they feel remaining in which they can keep black men under control.....kill them. -
Posted By:
Selene212 at 04/29/2008 12:08:01 PM
Comment:
While the larger point of your article is right- police are more afraid of black suspects and therefore more likely to shoot- I don't think the Bell case can be fairly grouped with Stansbury and Diallo.
Why not? Because Bell ran into the police officer with his car. He actually physically hit the officer with his car when he hit the gas. At that point, the combination of the fight that preceded the incident, with the mention of a gun, and his crazed driving (he hit the cop, then a van, then the van again), I think they would have fired at a white man, too.
Regardless of whether Bell was actually trying to run the cop over or hit him by accident, that situation would put anyone in real fear for his or her life. -
Posted By:
honkey at 04/29/2008 12:03:40 PM
Comment:
Some good points, but let's talk about how realistic those perceptions are. You quoted statistics on what percentage of people killed by the police are black men. Did you ever look at what percentage of violent crimes are committed by black men?
Did you ever notice that immigrant cabbies from all over the world won't stop and pick up black men? Did you ever wonder where their prejudice comes from? -
Posted By:
CRYSTALBLU40 at 04/29/2008 11:57:37 AM
Comment:
It's just another way to keep our Black people in line. And if you want to keep a job that is white runned (police, government, etc.) You have to act like them.
The Flunky, The Uncle Tom, The Chicken Gorge. Heck, look who's running for President You couldn't get any whitter then him. People Read his book. There should be a Law that if you shoot an unarmed person you should go to jail no matter who you work for, whatever the reason. What would happen if civilians got spooked and started killing cops for fear of getting shot and killed themselves?. So if that were to happen you bet your bottom that person will hang even using the "I was spooked" excuse. The judge just gave the United States the message of "If your spooked just get a gun and start shooting whoever spooked you".
Sometime a Child will spook a person when they turn a corner too fast running or run up to you screaming just to scream does that mean we kill them cause "I got spooked?". will I go to prison or freed cause "I got Spooked" That is the biggest doo doo I have ever heard. Again, what color was the judge?. EXCUSES!!, EXCUSES!!, EXCUSES!!....... What is This world coming too?. What else can they do to us?.. SO KEEP MIXING MY BROTHERS AND SISTER! CAUSE SOON THERE WILL BE NO MORE OF THEM. JUST A BUNCH OF US MIXED AND ALL!! -
Posted By:
ddrew2u at 04/29/2008 11:42:09 AM
Comment:
I am surprised that Slate would publish an essay so strewn with factual errors and obvious mischaracterizations -- the prime example being glossing over the fact that two of three supposedly racist cops were black and the other one was Lebanese -- not that I can think of any reasonable explanation other than some kind of hysteria for firing 32 shots at a person pinned behind a steering wheel.
A true exposition of the Timothy Stansbury killing would reveal a situation that would fit into a situation comedy if the officers had not had guns in their hands. Timothy did not know anyone was on the other side of the roof door in the middle of the night. Clowning for a friend he popped the door open and leaped out hands flying in the air as if trying to shock someone. Tragically, two fearful police officers with guns at the ready were on the other side and human nature took its dumb course. Hardly an example of racism.
In the Diallo case nobody seems to catch on that it was two, twenty shot shootings -- not one forty shot shooting. One of the officers there -- who may have shot prematurely in another incident -- started the shooting and everybody else followed. After 20 shots they stopped -- but one officer fell backwards -- causing the other officers to think he had be shot; leading to twenty more shots at the unfortunate Diallo.
Twenty shots is normal once cops (or soldiers or drive by shooters) begin shooting -- that's what they are trained to do. I read in TV Guide, 30 years ago, the police technical adviser to the Kojack show saying that real life cops don't trade shot for shot with bad guys like in the movies: when one shot comes your way, six are going back the other way. I was there when a cop was shot, over 30 years ago in Tremont IND subway station in the Bronx. The robber shot the cop once (in the arm) and the officer fired six shots back.
I don't know where Kia comes from but somebody ought to tip him off that no ethnic group "scares the ***" out of very color blind New Yorkers. -
Posted By:
ladyville69 at 04/29/2008 11:19:52 AM
Comment:
Some officers have their gun drawn because they believe it gives them a faster response. But, what i have learn from exp is it only leads to a quick poor judgement. The big problem in the NYPD is not racism its people running it like a business. The more you do the better you look. People start to look like investment. Where I work my department is majority hispanic, and the community still hates us. The reason is because of quota. Fight the department with with more than just racism or you will lose. -
Posted By:
thinkabit at 04/29/2008 11:13:00 AM
Comment:
It was a black cop that killed a black man so stop making an issue of race when race has nothing to do with it. The sides are law enforcement official and strip club patron. Opting to say that the sides are black and white is getting really old. -
Posted By:
Luce at 04/29/2008 11:11:52 AM
Comment:
What you say is true, but it's also true that young black men who don't have much power have decided to embrace the perceived power of being feared--there's a culture of black men having to be hard, to front, to talk *** about having guns, to never show a crack in the facade. The police see the facade, and for their own protection they have to take it at face value--they have to assume that these young black guys might be as hard, as heartless, as unpredictable, as violent as they pretend to be. It's an ugly cultural circle of expectations fulfilled. -
Posted By:
cambell at 04/29/2008 10:58:33 AM
Comment:
since two of the 3 officers were black, does that mean black people are scared of other black people? if that's the case, hopefully they'll get involved in some form of mutually assured destruction. we can only hope. -
Posted By:
azza3eem at 04/29/2008 10:46:18 AM
Comment:
in the eyes of police if you are colored you are always guilty till proven other wise but if you are white it will be different story its just that them making us guilty all the time makes us run for our lifes or you get shot even if you are innocent it dont make no sense no matter what we do in this country there will be racism wich is sad there is no way we colored and whites can have the same rights they make it seem like it but it will never happen................ -
Posted By:
mygirls at 04/29/2008 10:26:45 AM
Comment:
It is very sad when a court can justify the killing of a person whether he is black or white. I live in the Bahamas and we are a nation of "black people" so is most of the caribbean Islands, so we do not encounter alot of racially motivated crimes, but we do have alot of "black on black" crime, as it relates to gangs and just young men who do not know how to resolve confict so they respond with some kind of violent act. We as people need to learn to love our neighbours as ourselves then we would not feel the need to harm one another. This is one of the basic principles of God. We have to realize that we do not live in a vacuum and that we share this earth with people of different race, color, creed, values, beliefs and views that are different from ours, so we just need to learn to get along and accept the differences that exist.
VC (Bahamas) -
Posted By:
arush85 at 04/29/2008 10:19:27 AM
Comment:
"But nowhere does it show up more clearly than in police operations in starkly segregated ghettos like those in which Bell, Stansbury, and Diallo were gunned down."
Just to make it clear. Jamaica Queens is not the ghetto, it just has ghetto parts. Although it is mostly black, or west indian populated; the area is home to black people who make above the national average and own their own homes. I've grown up in Jamaica for 10 years now and have seen the progress being made in my neighborhood. NYTimes also reported a year back the significance of Jamcia Queens as one of the few places where black families make more than whites. Yes it is true. In Queens, white familes make less than blacks. So it angers me even more when cops like these attack unarmed men who are just out trying to have a good time. Jamaica is trying to do better and issues like these keep pulling us back. -
Posted By:
tsphere at 04/29/2008 10:17:14 AM
Comment:
A friend of mine told me about how while driving with her mother in South Carolina 40 years ago, she was caught speeding at night. The middle-aged white female driver said to the arresting officer, "Did you see that car behind us with two black men?" The officer said, "I understand. I'll keep an eye out" and walked back to his partrol car.
My friend (both of us are white) apologized in shame at recounting the incident recently on a Web discussion list. I thanked her for her honesty and for revealing a deep truth about US culture. The fact is that fear of blacks is considered a civic virtue in the white community! And it can be used for a variety of purposes. -
Posted By:
thrasher at 04/29/2008 10:04:06 AM
Comment:
Great article..of course Black men like me are the boogey man in white america..where is homeland security for us?? Black cops who work in racist companies can become racist as well... Our entire criminal justice system is racist from the Judges to the DA to the Police.
I will defend myself accordingly ..our ust const provides for self defense even against state terrorists like NYPD types.. -
Posted By:
gavinsnana at 04/29/2008 9:53:21 AM
Comment:
Since the officers have been found inoocent, can they be held civilly liable? Also they can be tried federally like the officers in Rodney King's case, under the color of law. Whatever, this case cannot just be ignored. For the slain young man, but also the intergrity of law enforcement is at risk. -
Posted By:
gavinsnana at 04/29/2008 9:49:33 AM
Comment:
Ok, the cops have been found innocent. can the be found civilly liable like OJ and Robert Blake? Or can they be prosecuted under federal law like the officers in Rodney King's case; under the color of law? -
Posted By:
shot1me at 04/29/2008 9:45:02 AM
Comment:
"blacks accounted for 66 percent of those killed by New York City police between 2000 and 2007 (New York is a perennial leader in police fatalities, averaging 12 a year over those years). "
I realize that the paranoia that Mr. Wright describes may partially account for this statistic, but isn't the crime rate of the neighborhoods in which these killings took place relevant as well? It's not fair to suggest that racial bias is the only factor that accounts for the disproportion between African-Americans' percentage of the population and their represented percentage among those killed by the police.
Also, in the Bell case, there seem to be differing accounts as to whether the police announced themselves as police and whether they had reason to initially think there was a gun in the car. If they were operating out of fear, as Wright suggests, why would they charge the car with drawn guns and not announce themselves as police? It would be a suicide mission.
If they did announce themselves and Bell then drove toward them, it does not excuse the shooting and certainly not the number of bullets fired, but it does complicate a "they shot them because of racist paranoia" argument.
I just think this case is more complicated than most commentators I've read or heard from want to acknowledge. -
Posted By:
cdono at 04/29/2008 9:26:33 AM
Comment:
Did anyone else notice that the articles about the trial referred to Bell and his friends emerging from a 'seedy' strip club? Not just a strip club. A 'seedy' strip club. Why would they add that adjective if not to make some sort of subliminal suggestion? Would an upper-class strip club not be termed 'seedy'? My (white) brother-in-law had a rather seedy looking stripper at his bachelor party. Should that have helped serve as justification if he was later killed by a hail of police gunfire while getting in his car to leave?
Also, the articles repeated the judge's comments about the witnesses' testimony being difficult to understand (I forget the exact wording). Yet it's hardly mentioned that the officers did not testify - the judge used their grand jury testimony - so they were not similarly subject to difficult questioning. Again, the news articles reinforce the stereotype and the fact of the witnesses being less than articulate justifies the outcome.
My point being that we need to be alert to how these fears and justifications get perpetuated by the well-chosen words used by our media to report the 'facts' of the situation. -
Posted By:
TE44720 at 04/29/2008 9:03:04 AM
Comment:
Sean Bell was far from innocent. Bell was arrested multiple times for drug dealing and possesion of a firearm as were the other occupants of the vehicle the night of the shooting. What kind of man spends the night before his wedding at a strip club notorious for drugs, gang activity and prostitution? Can we please stop pretending that Bell and his accomplices are some type of racial martyrs? The police acted as they should when approaching a convicted fellon with a history of violence and weapons possesion. Bell made poor choices and thos choices had consequences...-
Posted By:
Moxie_Nouveaux at 04/29/2008 4:57:19 PM
Comment:
But does that still justify being shot 50 times? Why would you need to keep shooting, reload, then continue shooting again? In the situation with the car coming at them, if they felt so endangered, why not just shoot out the tires?
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Posted By:
TE44720 at 04/29/2008 8:59:23 AM
Comment:
Sean Bell was and remains far from innocent. Bell was arrested multiple times for drug dealing and possesion of a fire arm, as were the other occupants of the vehicle at the time of the shooting. What kind of person spends the evening and early morning of his wedding day at a strip club notorious for drugs and prostitution? The police proceeded as they should when approaching a potentially armed multiple fellon...please stop pretending he is some sort of role model for injustice or racial intolerance...he was a criminal and his poor judgement had serious consequences. -
Posted By:
momofone at 04/29/2008 8:55:12 AM
Comment:
I grew up in the U.S (New Orleans to be exact) and the problem was that the brothers were all killing each other. That sparked enough outrage in me, but this went beyond. As a mother of a mixed race child, I wonder what social prejudices she will have to endure. -
Posted By:
momofone at 04/29/2008 8:52:37 AM
Comment:
The thing that makes me so mad about it is that ALL black people are percieved this way. It's like we can't be successful (must be drug money) or educated (with our drug money) in the eyes of our white counterparts. Yes, there are bad black people, but for as many of them that exist there are good black people. -
Posted By:
devilblue at 04/29/2008 8:47:42 AM
Comment:
"Much has been made" of the fact that two of the police officers were black simply because it is worth making much of... The author would have us believe that people are merely pawns in a system, that kill when the system requires it. Clearly, "the system" applies pressures and encourages certain behavior -- so does that mean the cops were innocent by right of being manipulated by the system? What weak souls the author believes us to be. ...and, as for the "apology" -- gimme a break -- if, as the author suggests, the cop in question, killed in cold-blood, of what sincerity or value is his apology?
BTW, consider relooking (or maybe even just looking) at the testimony in the case -- it's not just confusing, it's downright crazy and in no apparent way could have supported any decision other than that which the judge arrived at... -
Posted By:
Harmiclir at 04/29/2008 8:36:55 AM
Comment:
Did you bother to read Judge Cooperman's actual opinion. He said, among other things, that the witnesses produced by the prosecution provided testimony that contradicted their own grand jury testimony and each other, that several of the witnesses had an interest in the outcome of the case (i.e. had filed civil suits against the City) or were not credible on their own. He did not rule that there wasn't incompetence or stupidity or negligence in how the police reacted but that the prosecution had failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the incompetence or negligence had been CRIMINAL. He specifically said that a determination of the incompetence or negligence of the police needed to be assessed in some other forum than a court room and that is what the NYPD will very likely do with internal disciplinary hearings. As a matter of fact, several of the cops involved in the Diallou shooting, who were found not guilty of criminal behavior were punished in the administrative process and discharged from the department. -
Posted By:
bonafideivy at 04/29/2008 8:29:23 AM
Comment:
I think whites are afraid of blacks because of all the years of slavery they put us through. They know in their hearts that it was very wrong but still refuse to apologise or make up for it. It's almost as if every white person has a bit of racism in them,some totally unaware of it while some even fuelling it. We all have to realise that we are all humans and if one person is afraid of another, it shouldn't be because of his skin color but the fact that whether or not he poses a threat to their lives and safety.-
Posted By:
tikka at 04/29/2008 12:22:33 PM
Comment:
Are you kidding? Im white and I never put anyone through slavery- and when were you forced into slavery? I am so sick and tired of this bs, white people arent the only predjudiced people, Ive known blacks who are far more predjudiced than than whites, and before you go making remarks about ever white person being a little predjudiced let me tell you this, I used to work with black women and we would get along great if it was just one on one, but as soon as another black woman came into the room the whole atmospher changed and it was like that every single time and Im not the only one who has ever noticed that. And back to the slavery thing, when you really look into it, you'll see that that it was your own ancestors who sold you out and not a bunch of white guys hiding behind bushes with nets, I know slavery was wrong but this is not the only country where it exsisted and the blacks in Africa were just as guilty as anyone else, so if you want to be right about this you better start including your own people in on list of guilty parties.
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Posted By:
JJ0623 at 04/29/2008 8:23:41 AM
Comment:
One problem... weren't some of these white men cops...black. O wait a black person would never kill another black person, hmm nw that I think about it...that happens all the time. -
Posted By:
Harmiclir at 04/29/2008 8:06:44 AM
Comment:
Did you bother to read Judge Cooperman's actual opinion. He said, among other things, that the witnesses produced by the prosecution provided testimony that contradicted their own grand jury testimony and each other, that several of the witnesses had an interest in the outcome of the case (i.e. had filed civil suits against the City) or were not credible on their own. He did not rule that there wasn't incompetence or stupidity or negligence in how the police reacted but that the prosecution had failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the incompetence or negligence had been CRIMINAL. He specifically said that a determination of the incompetence or negligence of the police needed to be assessed in some other forum than a court room and that is what the NYPD will very likely do with internal disciplinary hearings. As a matter of fact, several of the cops involved in the Diallou shooting, who were found not guilty of criminal behavior were punished in the administrative process and discharged from the department. -
Posted By:
JonnyM at 04/29/2008 7:50:55 AM
Comment:
The 12 people shot every year by police in NYC are only a tiny fraction of those who are killed every year. It is also true that white people tend to kill white people and black people tend to kill black people. Maybe if we can show the police that we are not the violent killers they percieve us to be by us not killing our brothers and sisters then we will be able to see a decrease in the police shootings. The excuse that they were scared still does not excuse the behavior of the police. If you are scared then take extra precautions but do not jus sart shooting. -
Posted By:
Jayp at 04/29/2008 5:20:32 AM
Comment:
Stop trying to justify irresponsibility. I'm not going to wait for a firearm to be pointed at me before I make a decision. If Sean Bell and friends had behaved in a responsible manner this tragedy would not have taken place. Please invest your time teaching people how to be responsible adults. Thanks.-
Posted By:
Moxie_Nouveaux at 04/29/2008 5:02:02 PM
Comment:
And if the cops decided to be kind enough to notify them that they were police, AND not resorting to firing off 50-something rounds (reloading in the process), none of this would've happened. If they felt so threatened, why not just shoot out the tires of the car they said was headed towards them?
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Posted By:
Jayp at 04/29/2008 5:07:04 AM
Comment:
Stop trying to justify irresponsibility and start teaching people how to properly behave. What was Sean Bell doing in a stripclub known for prostitution and drugs the night before his wedding? Why did Sean Bell decide to get behind the wheel of a car while he was intoxicated?
Let's not forget the heated argument outside Kalua where "go get my piece" was heard by several witnesses. And most importantly, Sean Bell's own friend testifying about Sean Bell's irresponsible behavior.
Do you honestly expect cops to see a firearm pointed at them before they can make a decision? Do you honestly think that a cop should wait to be fired upon before said cop can discharge his/her firearm? And you mentioned the teenager that was going up the stairwells to the rooftop. Did you know NYC regulations prohibit civilians from entering rooftops in NYC?
I'm a 25 year old Latino that has lived in NYC, Florida, the Deep South, and out West and I have never had a problem with cops. Why? Because I carry myself like a decent human being. I do not engage in stupid or irresponsible behavior.
Start taking responsibility for your actions. Instruct people to stay in school and educate themselves. I recognize many cops in the NYPD are corrupt, dirty, and/or prejudiced. I know that much. However, this does not justify irresponsibility on our part. Living correctly does. Thanks. -
Posted By:
naven at 04/29/2008 3:52:36 AM
Comment:
Your coverage of the Sean Bell incident from beginning to end has been absolutely horrible, irresponsible and criminal. Not only have you chosen to selectively cover bits and pieces in the case, but you have also fanned the flames of racial tensions that are undeniably alive in New York City, partially created by your irresponsible and sensational reporting.
Sean Bell and his friends were not saints as you make them out to be. They were the scourge of the city and responsible for countless deaths, violence, and needless addictions against their own people. Their night on the town was not an innocent get together of friends to reminisce on the old times before he made his final commitment to his long time girlfriend. This particular night out was a continuation of his past nights out of fights, drug use, and talk of gunplay. You conveniently forget to mention the past convictions of gun possession, controlled substance sales and the fact that Trent Benefield couldn???t even stay out of trouble after this incident, beating his pregnant girlfriend bloody last year.
On the other hand, you choose to make villains out of three men who have sworn to protect the city and did so without incident or loss to life until that fateful night. You choose to ignore the fact that none of the cops involved in the shooting were white, including Detective Oliver who is of Lebanese decent, creating innuendo???s that because his appearance is white, he is in fact white and that racism was in play.
Sean Bell was not unarmed that night. He was armed and he used his weapon of choice, a 3200-lb Nissan Altima, to strike down a police officer and hit an unmarked police van twice. This criminal was not a stranger to the criminal justice system and I have no doubt in my mind that he knew they were cops that he was about to run over, just as we had a gut feeling that he was up to no good.
This was not a tragedy. You can sugarcoat this all you want, but Sean Bell???s lifestyle, his choices in life, and his choices that night sealed his fate. This is not a tragedy nor is this a unique story. If you choose to live a life of crime, most likely you will die a violent death. The only tragedy here is what three detectives had to go through for political reasons and yet another African American child is without a father due to his choices in life. This is the true tragedy. -
Posted By:
iloveguam at 04/29/2008 1:26:33 AM
Comment:
Uhm, do you think that leaving out the part about the car striking the van was an oversight or intentional? If I rammed a cop car, I would expect them to pull guns.-
Posted By:
Moxie_Nouveaux at 04/29/2008 5:15:59 PM
Comment:
Do you think the plain-clothes undercover cops not identifying themselves was acceptable? After dealing with these blue-light bandits pulling over drivers in my state lately, you'd better damn well believe that if something's not quite right with that person getting out of the car heading towards mine, I'm taking off.
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Posted By:
iloveguam at 04/29/2008 1:23:45 AM
Comment:
Uhm, do you think that leaving out the part about the car striking the van was an oversight or intentional? -
Posted By:
picasso at 04/28/2008 10:42:52 PM
Comment:
The article is focused on white fear of black men -- and then two paragraphs from the end reveals that two of the three police officers were black. This seems like a plain old case of trigger-happy police, not one of racism. -
Posted By:
PhilG at 04/28/2008 9:24:29 PM
Comment:
Very inciteful; very thought provoking. Great piece of reading. It should make black people (men) even more aware that they are a "perceived" target by the ruling class. Perception should never be used as an excuse to defend murder. If you are scared, you shouldn't have a weapon in your hand purporting to protect the public. To shoot someone to death because you "perceive" your life is in peril without knowing if indeed your life is in danger is a license to kill. This is just another way to assault the black community and black men. -
Posted By:
PhilG at 04/28/2008 9:10:42 PM
Comment:
Very enlightening; very thought provoking. A needed reminder to the oppression we, as black people in American, still wake up to. Great work KW, looking forward to read more of what you have to say. -
Posted By:
Sadaka at 04/28/2008 6:33:20 PM
Comment:
Kai - the first time I read an article of yours I intended then to tell you how refreshing and validating it is to HEAR someone speak truth like you do. DS Post - The Officers DO perceive a threat - nonissue. The point is SO MANY Black men who are unarmed are DYING because of it! Perception does not SANCTION murder in any society. Not here, not in The Congo, not anywhere - for any reason or benefit to oneself. Kai - thank you once again for TRUTH as you speak it. SADKA -
Posted By:
duly_Noted at 04/28/2008 5:17:35 PM
Comment:
I wasn???t surprised by the trial or the subsequent acquittal. I???d known in advance how it would unfold and culminate. The cops would trot out their hardy blueprint for beating ???bad shooting??? charges; so reliable it???s even invoked when they kill each other, as in the killing of Providence Police Officer Cornel Young by two fellow officers and of D.C police officer McGee by Officer Baker.
The police subculture has developed a handy script for just such occasions: the Police Shooting Report Checklist. There is even a cartoon that is passed out in police locker rooms listing the available options. It includes, first and foremost, an assertion that you feared for your life, followed by (1) He tried to run me over with his car and /or (2) he pointed /had/seemed like he had a gun and/or (3) lunged at me with his knife.
Seasoned cops know how to position themselves in front of vehicles enough to make option #1 plausible, as in the murder of Desmond Rudolph in Kentucky, 1999 and Emanuel Lopez in Chicago, 2005.
In the Lopez case, cops went so far as to testify that the victim had pinned an officer under his car and presented a pair of pants with tire tracks across them to explain why they were compelled to shoot unarmed Mr. Lopez 16 times.
Unfortunately for them, forensics expert William Bozdiak concluded that the tire tracks were not from Mr. Lopez???s car. Furthermore, he found that the pants were not actually being worn at the time the tire tracks were made on them.
You couch the whole fictional narrative to the jury with these boilerplate ancillaries: ???You, the jury and prosecutor, weren???t there???; ???there was still a threat ??? even if you can???t see it???, ???the suspect was still resisting???; You aren???t a police officer hence you don???t know what I experienced???; and the coup de gr??ce: ???police work is dangerous and you (the jurors and the prosecutor) should not second-guess an officer???s split-second decisions.??? (Never mind that driving a taxi is actually more dangerous, statistically speaking.)
Then, for good measure, you add the perfectly synchronized testilying of all your colleagues, courtesy of the 48-hour rule which enables you and them to perfect a flawless fictional narrative - not to mention the subtle complicity of your senior management that is only too happy to see a verdict finding that its wasn???t a bad shooting at all ??? never mind that the barrage of shots fired seem rather excessive or that the victims were unarmed.
No, I wasn???t surprised at all. If you wish to spare yourself any pointless suspense in the future during trials of this nature, I recommend you also read ???Yes Virginia, There Is a Police Code of Silence???, by a former-cop-turned-attorney, where all this information was gleaned from. It can be found here: http://works.bepress.com/christopher_cooper/1/ -
Posted By:
larsmd09 at 04/28/2008 3:18:42 PM
Comment:
Test Post -
Posted By:
dopper0189 at 04/28/2008 3:15:40 PM
Comment:
Did the police produce anyone else in the club who heard Sean Bell say this? If he intended to shoot up the club why was he driving away? Why didn't they just get his plate number, and radio it in. Are we to believe that 3 NYC police officers were working undercover without back up in the area?
Look no one would wnat to live in a city without cops. The problem I am having is this reminds me too much of high speed police chases. I went to school with a girl who years later lost her legs at the hospital after being struck by a punk kid, who was being chased by police for running a stop sign. Did the police have the "right" to pursue him? Of course? But was it worth it to have a 28 year old young lady loose her legs?
I also know of my own experience. I have had a cop search my car after he claimed I ran a red light. I also had a situation where I was searhced after changing lanes on the highway without using a turn signal. Now in neither case was I arrested or charged. But the fact remains in one situation a policeman lied, in the other he bent the rules inorder to justify their own "hunches". So yes even upper middle class non-criminal record black men like myself have misgivings about policemen. I sold my BMW over these types of things.
Everyone knows doctors are there to save lives. But if a doctor makes a mistake there seem to be greater consequences then for a policeman. I hope the NYC doesn't say "They got off, everything is ok", but treat this proactively and ctry to change training SOP to prevent these kind of attacks. If there is a mistake in a hospital procedures need to be changed and documented to prevent it from happening again. Do the men in blue do this also? I don't know? -
Posted By:
larsmd09 at 04/28/2008 3:14:54 PM
Comment:
So let me get this straight. If the white cop would have shot only 17 times, then apologized to the family of the victim, this killing and the verdict would be a non-issue, correct? (You say that it's "significant" that the white cop shot 31 of the 51 shots, and because it was notable that the black cop apologized.) Fearing the weakness of your argument, you fall back on the weaker argument that, although the white cop should not be excused for the "systemic" problems that lead to the "death-by-cop racial disparity," the black and latino officers should be excused. Perhaps if you stopped trying to turn rare instances of terrible individual judgment into "systemic" problems, your ideas would be taken more seriously by mainstream America (and perhaps even academia). At least your exaggerations get you more readers. Congratulations. -
Posted By:
dopper0189 at 04/28/2008 2:46:18 PM
Comment:
OK so did the police produce another witness who said they heard