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How the Talented Tenth Got Over
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Posted By:
juanitaw at 04/06/2008 8:20:11 PM
Comment:
I am not sure if the talented tenth got over, I just think that the black community has become 2 different worlds and that there is such a cultural chasm that it makes communicating difficult between the groups. And if you can't communicate, you can't solve your problems.
Middle-classness to me is more about values and cultural tendencies than financial status. Many lower class people, and middle class people with lower class tendencies do not understand or execute their lives in a way that makes them successful.
As someone who came from modest means who is now doing well, I dealt with lower class kids while I was growing up. Many of them didn't like me because I was too proper, spoke and acted too white and obviously didn't put out. I did my homework, I was polite to my teachers and I was considered stuck up. Some of my relatives think the same thing. Now I am doing well and some of them are bewildered. There are many examples of middle class blacks and lower class blacks who practice their tendencies in the black community but those people are ridiculed. It is not until those people make money, buy a big house or expensive car that they are considered accomplished. -
Posted By:
ken at 04/06/2008 1:16:10 PM
Comment:
@lola_44
I can't speak for everyone, but one of the things about hip-hop that I find most exciting is that it is basically an entrepreneurial culture. I don't think much of Puffy's music, but when I look at what he has done as a business man I can't help but be impressed. Not only has Puffy been successful himself, he has created a blueprint of sorts for others to follow. -
Posted By:
gijoebo06 at 04/06/2008 7:59:45 AM
Comment:
I was just introduced to The Root and enjoy reading it. However, I must agree with SR Boston. I am in the military and by most accounts can be considered middle class. I didn't get here on by stepping onward, upward and over the backs of people that were once my neighbors, as this author so eloquently put it. My neighbors, black, white, mixed and brown, male and female, helped me in my time of need as I continue to help others after me. I am reminded of the many countries that I have visited and have been stationed around the world and it still shocks me that in this land of plenty there are those that WILL NOT take advantage of the opportunities that this country provides. When do we hold those of our race accountable for not wanting to be better, regardless of the hand reaching across the divide to bring them over? A great friend of mine, Mr Brandon Fauntleroy-McDowell, was murdered two weeks ago in Kansas City, Mo. This young man was assisting his community as he elevated himself into a better position in life. He was about to graduate with his Master's in three weeks and had already been accepted into Law School at the age of 25. He was surprised and subsequently shot to death in broad daylight by three assailants (read people you think the middle class has stepped on to get ahead) for the rims of his Tahoe as he left his job one afternoon. When you see the mug shots of the three people who allegedly had something to do with this horrific crime, you wonder what this man of God did to fail them to the point that they needed to murder him. Maybe from your position as an instructor at your university you have seen the Black middle class fail the rest of the black race. I see a middle class that tries to help our race, creates after school programs, tutors those less fortunate and does all those things that our grandmother taught us we should do to help our families prosper. But, as SR Boston wrote, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Sad to say but the talened tenth could very well be the talented [20th, 30th or higher, you pick the number] if the very ones you say we have stepped over really wanted to rise up and bring someone else with them. I have not read your book but I plan to purchase it and examine the reasons why you think that that tenth has gotten over. Maybe it was when BET stopped becoming entertainment television that I was proud of as a child and started becoming Blacks Embarrassing Themselves. Or, maybe it was the childish antics of our professional sports players who don't see themselves as role models for our youth. Or maybe, just maybe, it is our collective self-loathing which causes us to classify those that we don't agree with, even though they have at least a drop of black blood in them, as not being "black enough" to run for the highest office in the land as a black man. -
Posted By:
gijoebo06 at 04/06/2008 7:59:17 AM
Comment:
I was just introduced to The Root and enjoy reading it. However, I must agree with SR Boston. I am in the military and by most accounts can be considered middle class. I didn't get here on by stepping onward, upward and over the backs of people that were once my neighbors, as this author so eloquently put it. My neighbors, black, white, mixed and brown, male and female, helped me in my time of need as I continue to help others after me. I am reminded of the many countries that I have visited and have been stationed around the world and it still shocks me that in this land of plenty there are those that WILL NOT take advantage of the opportunities that this country provides. When do we hold those of our race accountable for not wanting to be better, regardless of the hand reaching across the divide to bring them over? A great friend of mine, Mr Brandon Fauntleroy-McDowell, was murdered two weeks ago in Kansas City, Mo. This young man was assisting his community as he elevated himself into a better position in life. He was about to graduate with his Master's in three weeks and had already been accepted into Law School at the age of 25. He was surprised and subsequently shot to death in broad daylight by three assailants (read people you think the middle class has stepped on to get ahead) for the rims of his Tahoe as he left his job one afternoon. When you see the mug shots of the three people who allegedly had something to do with this horrific crime, you wonder what this man of God did to fail them to the point that they needed to murder him. Maybe from your position as an instructor at your university you have seen the Black middle class fail the rest of the black race. I see a middle class that tries to help our race, creates after school programs, tutors those less fortunate and does all those things that our grandmother taught us we should do to help our families prosper. But, as SR Boston wrote, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Sad to say but the talened tenth could very well be the talented [20th, 30th or higher, you pick the number] if the very ones you say we have stepped over really wanted to rise up and bring someone else with them. I have not read your book but I plan to purchase it and examine the reasons why you think that that tenth has gotten over. Maybe it was when BET stopped becoming entertainment television that I was proud of as a child and started becoming Blacks Embarrassing Themselves. Or, maybe it was the childish antics of our professional sports players who don't see themselves as role models for our youth. Or maybe, just maybe, it is our collective self-loathing which causes us to classify those that we don't agree with, even though they have at least a drop of black blood in them, as not being "black enough" to run for the highest office in the land as a black man. -
Posted By:
lola_44 at 04/05/2008 8:02:42 PM
Comment:
What you say resonates with me and many others, but before you entirely write off hip-hop as a nihilistic subculture, please see "Planet B-Boy," out in theatres now. It shows hip-hop at its most creative, forward-thinking, and global. -
Posted By:
tiredjournalista at 04/04/2008 10:53:22 PM
Comment:
What we really need to do is to stop following in the footsteps of the white patriarchy. Despite your valid claims, it is also true that black women got the vote much later than black men. And at the Ivy League school that I went to women were not allowed to attend for more than 20 years after black men were admitted! MLK is arguably the greatest man of his century, but he wouldn't have been there without Rosa Parks and others like Septima Clark who most of us don't even know about. Really, I'm tired of hearing how bad black men have it and I'm more tired of black women letting them get over and becoming good little wifeys. This issue transcends class and we will never reach our true potential as black americans until we deal with this ugly reality. -
Posted By:
SRBoston at 04/04/2008 3:27:17 PM
Comment:
Interesting article. I am considered "middle class", and I got here through hard work, perserverance and yes, some good luck as well. I spent most of my early adult years trying to help those around me, and I can tell you from personal experience, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. At the point where I started questioning myself as to why my efforts were going unappreciated, I started to pull back, and concentrate only on those that wanted help. Though that limits the impact I would like to have, at least I can find satisfaction in knowing that I have made a difference, if only for a few, rather than the many. Case in point, a good friend of mine about the same age, always had a thousand and one reasons why he wasn't doing better (problems with my dad, problems with my mom, society, etc.). He even would denigrate my manner of speech, saying that I sound "white". Fast forward 20 years, and he is now doing well, has a good job, house and car, the things that make us "middle class". he recently told me that if it wasn't for my support over the years, being willing to tell him that you are better than this, that you can't blame the world forever, at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions, he doesn't believe he would be where he is. Bottom line here is the old adage "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". While we have a responsibility to those that need help, they must be willing to help themselves. -
Posted By:
Tubbs at 04/04/2008 2:35:37 PM
Comment:
I think the theme of this article holds true, if the literal words may be found to be wanting. If the Black middle and upper class does not focus our attention on Blacks who are stills truggling, surely we can't expect anyone else to.
So again, my question is what are we to do? I like Tavis Smiley's state of the Black Union alot because it helps to focus our issues and it brings many of our most talented people to weigh in on these issues.
I guess since the author or those who share his point of view aren't offerring any suggestions, I'll take a stab at what we as middle class black folks might do (and this is off the top of my head, so don't burn me too badly):
Move back into cities? It seems that white flight from Black neighborhoods was closely followed by Black middle/upper class flight. I think if we invest in impoverished areas and reclaim them, maybe that will help to imporve the schools and provide concrete examples for our brothers and sisters who haven't quite gotten out yet, that there are other choices.
Talk to each other: We need to stop judging, stop pointing fingers and try to start communicating with each other. It's hard, I know. I don't really like talking to anybody, but I think the separation between the classes in our group is a part of the problem
Education: we nned to imporve public education in this country. Period.
That's all I got right now. -
Posted By:
growth12 at 04/04/2008 8:07:14 AM
Comment:
I think the points in this article could have been better articulated (it read as if it had been heavily edited), but I think the points are well taken. "Well off" blacks are in deep denial about racism and classism in this country and also about how precarious our wealth/privilege is. It's all well and good to point out the haters who don't want our "help," but there are many children and single women who could certainly use it (and wouldn't turn it down). I sometimes think we want to treat our poorer brothers and sisters the same way some of our white bosses and friends treat us: patronizing, resentful that we're getting something we don't deserve, with an air of suspicion. The so-called Talented Tenth has a long history of looking down on poorer, darker blacks. We all know this. I wish we could be honest about this and deal with the ugliness inside. I also wish we could acknowledge that we had certain advantages (skin tone, parents with access, being in the right place at the right time) that allowed us to succeed. Americans love to talk about how they've all worked hard for what they have, which, for the most part, is a total crock. I live in the D.C. area and have come across some of the most arrogant, provincial, judgmental black folks ever. I'm not poor and don't need a handout, but I would seriously not want them to do me any favors, ever. Perhaps that's the vibe all the poors you put-upon negroes deign to help are getting. The Talented Tenth needs to get over itself. -
Posted By:
blessinggirl at 04/04/2008 12:08:40 AM
Comment:
The so-called black middle class is shrinking daily, faster than the majority race middle class during a colossal melt down of a consumption-based economy. Social norms are driven by Hollywood and record moguls, so the influence of media exacerbates the our residential diffusion and the breakup of black families. Your article presupposes that those of us with education and a measure of stability can actually influence the behavior and values of the underclass. I believe helping one person at a time is what works. Indicting an amorphous class--especially when economic realities are trending toward a depression--is not helpful or realistic. I've declined to comment on articles dealing with the STD crisis because I truly sound judgmental and old. How do we speak out on the sexualization of young girls, the absence of shame at early teen motherhood, when Mariah Carey makes a record talking about putting her face at her man's waist? How do we get young people to listen to values of thrift and sacrifice when people like Diddy or Jay-Z make millions? Castigating people who try to do right by their own families is not the answer. -
Posted By:
Docky at 04/03/2008 7:47:49 PM
Comment:
I like what one famous radio host said,in an in an interview of the rapper T.I. ..."the generation of the 60's failed the following generation..." to paraphrase he said that generation was so busy with civil rights they completely forgot about us - I'm 35. It's not to late for them to dig deep and reach out to teach us before the generation is remembered only by grainy black and white film of the civil rights era. -
Posted By:
Docky at 04/03/2008 7:47:15 PM
Comment:
I like what one famous radio host said,in an in an interview of the rapper T.I. ..."the generation of the 60's failed the following generation..." to paraphrase he said that generation was so busy with civil rights they completely forgot about us - I'm 35. It's not to late for them to dig deep and reach out to teach us before the generation is only remembered by grainy black and white film of the civil rights era. -
Posted By:
dq2 at 04/03/2008 7:15:44 PM
Comment:
After reading the article I'm confused by the authors understanding of what the black middle class can or cannot do. He uses sentences like "they have ceded the authority of their considerable affluence to trade on the money-making stereotypes of what it means to be black and American." HUH.
I would describe most of my friends as middle class. None of which I would describe as considerably affluent. They are people who go to work on a daily basis and work hard to make sure that their families are doing their very best in whatever they are doing. That usually means going to school and trying to get their children to do their very best in school. All would agree that a good education must be the very first priority of the family. Most make good incomes and try to save a little to retire on. Some have rentals, some go on exotic vacations. But let's be very clear, we are all just a couple of months away from losing it all. That???s the middle class I know.
Mr. Fulwood clearly mistakes the Talented Tenth, our black elite, for the rest of us. -
Posted By:
dq2 at 04/03/2008 7:14:12 PM
Comment:
After reading the article I'm confused by the authors understanding of what the black middle class can or cannot do. He uses sentences like "they have ceded the authority of their considerable affluence to trade on the money-making stereotypes of what it means to be black and American." HUH.
I would describe most of my friends as middle class. None of which I would describe as considerably affluent. They are people who go to work on a daily basis and work hard to make sure that their families are doing their very best in whatever they are doing. That usually means going to school and trying to get their children to do their very best in school. All would agree that a good education must be the very first priority of the family. Most make good incomes and try to save a little to retire on. Some have rentals, some go on exotic vacations. But let's be very clear, we are all just a couple of months away from losing it all. That???s the middle class I know.
Mr. Fulwood clearly mistakes the Talented Tenth, our black elite, for the rest of us. -
Posted By:
SilkCity_1 at 04/03/2008 6:02:03 PM
Comment:
I am Black, middle class and still living the neighborhood I grew up in. This neighborhood lies iin an urban center. the author is working on the premise that those thjat need lifting up are aware of that and that they want to be uplifted. The author fails to define what "lifting up" entails. Is it one thing (e.g. money)? Is it many things? Is it one of many things? I have always said the help one is willing to give may not be the help someone else wants and may not be the help that someone needs. I have offered lots to family, neighbors and the community. Almost all of it has been rejected. Not only has the talented tenth changed, the remaining nine-tenths has changed. -
Posted By:
Tubbs at 04/03/2008 2:41:54 PM
Comment:
So what are Black middle class folks supposed to do about this? If I give money to every needy person in my neighborhood, I'll end up being needy myself. I vote. I donate money to causes and candidates I believe in. I have mentored and tutored. What is the solution? -
Posted By:
ken at 04/03/2008 1:46:38 PM
Comment:
This little tongue lashing of middle-class Blacks looks very nice on the written page, but conflicts with reality. It's not just middle-class Blacks walking away from those they consider to be "ghetto", but the reverse is also true; I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've had another Black person accuse me of being "bougie" for no other reason than I went to college or went to college and didn't go to an HBCU. It seems that it's becoming increasingly fashionable to denigrate successful Black people for not revolving their lives around their race; for having the temerity to do things that are considered outside of the typical "Black experience."
For reasons that I can not understand, we as Black people are at war with one and other; those that haven't made it hurl jealous accusations at those that have and those that have made it look down their noses at those who have not. This battle, this sniping at each other, does nothing to help either group. -
Posted By:
TUAlpha93 at 04/03/2008 11:44:16 AM
Comment:
Excellent article Sam. I'm currently reading PowerNomics and the only way that blacks as a group will build true wealth in this country is through group economics. Despite all of the examples that you gave of "5% black Americans", as a group, we still control the same amount of wealth today as we did at the end of Reconstruction. As a person who played sports for most of my life, I find it ironic that we believe in group dynamics and symbolism when it comes to the achievements of athletic teams. There are all sorts of examples and stories from sports that illustrate how the cohesiveness of a team always overcomes the selfishness of individualism. Yet, when it comes to helping out our fellow ???man??? or helping each other build wealth, we turn to selfish individualism almost every time. -
Posted By:
Hal in MS at 04/03/2008 11:13:18 AM
Comment:
Acting white ? If I hear another of you ghetto intelligentia types throw that nugget out again......But in the spirit of not acting white, why aren't you making this spiel on the stoop, or outside the rib shack, or on the corner, etc ? Anywhere but the "white fols" internet. -
Posted By:
Sweetoctober57 at 04/03/2008 11:07:05 AM
Comment:
Good -
Posted By:
RushBoogs at 04/03/2008 10:53:17 AM
Comment:
so, a question I've pondered myself over the past decade or so, did integration help or hurt the collective Black community? In the big picture analysis, I always thought it did because it gave the Black middle class and those who reached that level permission to not be concerned about the community. So, even though based on income and access into the mainstream culture we appear to be doing alright, however if you really look at power and control over ourselves-that has declined. Because the majority of the Black middle class moved out of communities that born them, it is like a "brain-drain." The communities left behind have become desolate, Black-owned businesses took a heavy hit, money left.
Funny how when I advocate for Black middle class folks to move back to the hood and buy real estate etc. I was met with resistance and even ridicule. Now look at white folk buyin up everything they can get their hands on in the city...and thus a new chapter is developing... -
Posted By:
macdw at 04/03/2008 9:25:54 AM
Comment:
I am not sure I get the point of your article. I was born into the black middle class and have had a very progressive career and lifestyle. I have volunteered in literacy programs, given my time and money to ministries that cater to inner-city youth and thier problems. I have taken my 19 year old nephew into my home and am financing his education. I have spent time teaching poor black kids to read, when their own parents didn't even know their child was illiterate. I keep trying to "give back."
Here is what I have learned in the decade or so that I have committed myself to "giving back". Some people do not want what you have to give. Some people don't want to hear about hard work, perseverance, determination, and refusing to quit. You see, affirmative action might open a door for you, but the only one who can keep it open is you. And the only way you keep it open, is via all of those aforementioned attributes. Being black to me has meant that I have worked harder and longer than my fiar skinned peers to get where I am, and I simply count it as the cost. Some people don't want to hear that. Some people don't want help with a resume, or tips on interviewing well. The thing is, those are the only things I have to offer. So, have I forgotten where I come from, or how I got here? I don't think so. -
Posted By:
anniemcw at 04/03/2008 8:32:01 AM
Comment:
Great article. I'm wondering what you would say to my middle class friends and I (80s babies) about this issue. We weren't there when MLK was killed and can only understand the emotional elements of the movement through stories our parents and grandparents tell - something that doesn't normally happen in our fast paced world.
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