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Tyler Perry's Conservative Tent Revival
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Posted By:
Mrs. Dev at 10/08/2008 3:56:00 PM
Comment:
Tyler's work is entertainment. He is not suggesting how anyone should live. If anyone has a relationship with the Lord his plays and movies won't change that. Don't hate because God is blessing this man. I am a devoted old school christian and I love him and his work. He simply shows our culture as it can be sometimes. At least I can watch his plays and movies with my family. May God continue to hold him up, besides the bible tells us not to judge another man's servant. I wonder how is your walk with the Lord. -
Posted By:
Mrs. Dev at 10/08/2008 3:47:05 PM
Comment:
Tyler's work is entertainment. People are going to be who they are in their own walk with God. If you have a right relationship with the Lord nothing or anyone can change that. Don't hate because God is blessing him. He can't make church folk look any worse than some of these money grubbing, molesting so called preachers in the world. Tyler is an asset to his race and the bible tells us not to judge another man's servant. -
Posted By:
sherryinmemphis at 06/26/2008 4:11:28 PM
Comment:
This is the back ground of our black culture I remeber my grandmother had a gun in the house, and she would it if she needed it to!! I love Tyler perry Im very Happy that God has blessed him!! all brothers are not selling drugs, in jail nor waiting on a women to take care of him. Rock on Tyler P.!! -
Posted By:
Aunt G. at 05/07/2008 4:37:50 PM
Comment:
I will be praying for this writer she needs Jesus -
Posted By:
Aunt G. at 05/07/2008 4:36:58 PM
Comment:
Praise the Lord Jesus, I am Pentecostal, I did not know that Tyler Perry had a Pentecostal background now I know I will be buying his plays more and also watching them.
I watch his plays becuase I don't have to worry about foul launguage. I will be praying for him that God will use him even more...to God be the Glory great thing he has done. -
Posted By:
Aunt G. at 05/07/2008 4:33:54 PM
Comment:
Lady you need Jesus, -
Posted By:
gafred at 05/07/2008 6:17:22 AM
Comment:
The white conservative christians I know like his works. As much for the message of redemption as for anything else. An individuals sense of humor decides if they will laugh. We do, but not all the same. He has a gift. He is using it well. Perhaps his reward will be greater than just what money he is making now. God knows. The message transcends race. -
Posted By:
CleanWords at 05/06/2008 9:20:23 PM
Comment:
anyone who can go to hoolyweird these days and make a movie that sells, makes people laugh, and the actors manage to keep their clothes on, and they arn't vulgar, and they DON'T SWEAR, gets a big vote in my book. -
Posted By:
isay2mlb at 05/06/2008 3:09:09 PM
Comment:
Amen -
Posted By:
macdw at 05/06/2008 10:01:12 AM
Comment:
Tyler Perry is not a philospher or a social scientist. He is a flim maker and a story teller. He does what fil makers and story tellers do. They connect with thier audience on an emotional level while entrataining and inspiring them. If his message was not connecting, and if people didn't see a reflection of themselves in his work, then he wouldn't be successful. He is merely portraying an experience that he has known to an audience that embraces it because they too have experienced it. Regardless of what you think of it, prayer has sustained many a black family in this nation over the course of hundreds of years.
Regardless of what you think of it, that brand of Christianity is being played out in black homes across this country every day. If you want movies that promote your particular religious philosophy, then go and make them! It is hillarious to me that for years we have been bombarded by the images of thugs, pimps, drug dealers and gang bangers in movies, because that's what Hollywood thinks the black experience is, and absolutelu REFUSES to accept the reality that most black people in this country don't relate to that and don't live that way. So, here comes Perry, with an experience that is far closer to reality for most black people, and you want to condemn him because he isn't preaching your brand of Christianity. Go make your own movies and leave Mr. Perry alone. -
Posted By:
evry1has1 at 05/05/2008 9:42:39 PM
Comment:
i am an aa christian female who is grateful for this article for te discussion it has generated. it is one man's critique that is simply asking for more from tp. i have never been a true fan of tp but felt compelled to support him lest i be ousted from the black church community. his work amuses but is stereotypical, predictable and simplistic. there is a deplorable lack of positive entertainment for black families and when people are hungry, they'll eat anything -
Posted By:
LJeffries at 05/03/2008 12:16:49 PM
Comment:
I believe preaching and teaching self-reliance and determination are more effiecient than robbing people of hope. Telling them the blocks are stacked against them and a revolution is in order. How does a revolution get underfoot in the first place? By one person, one family, one community at a time taking control of their life. Wages don't define me, healthcare options are not my identity. Black women and men alike are tired of being told things are just so bad. They are working to change things while changing themselves, and that is what bible (and Tyler Perry by association) teaches. -
Posted By:
tiredofthesameblackimagesinmedia at 04/01/2008 1:28:40 AM
Comment:
I think the black family needs to practice open communication. We were and are conditioned to think or believe that prayer and Jesus is the answer. While I am not here to argue with it is or not I do firmly believe that our socialization stems from a slavery mentality and we cannot address certain issues that occur in our lives. We are taught from a young age to endure, to become the strong black woman and what that basically means to me is, stay with your cheating husband, take mental abuse or just tolerate. Don't get me wrong, I do feel that you can work through challenges in any relationship but we are not known as a race to say, 'no'. And, because we don't say, 'no' we think that God will be the one to set us free. It's a simplistic way to think, and Tyler Perry movies embodies that thinking. To me, I will not support him at all, it's archaic and myopic, however; he has a following and it is entertainment. It's just said to see that we are always portrayed in this 'minstrel' light and what's even more shocking is how we blacks accept it. Sad, Sad, Sad... -
Posted By:
llide2 at 03/31/2008 4:55:55 PM
Comment:
wow. what a an article. Well..first off I am a firm,deeply rooted believer. My faith, b/c of the grace of God is unshakeable. I would first off like to say, unless you've tried prayer...and I mean really...unless you've walked with God, and said "Lord I'm willing for you to be Master of my life, so I give you every difficult situation this world may bring in prayer" then you can't debunk THE FACT that prayer changes things. B/c i can most definitley tell you that it does. I'm a living testimony of it, so you can tell me no different. I am a black woman....yes, I have seen Tyler Perry's movies, yes they are predictable, yes the message of the movie is that Jesus is the answer. But like I said before, He is. What's wrong with the movie being predictable? You still must remember, IT'S A MOVIE! almost, all movies are predictable. Think about it. Batman, Spiderman, and Superman save the day. You put a little twist on the movie plot, and it sells millions, with a faitful audience ready for the sequels.....yes, we all know what is gonna happen, but the same thing for these classics. I do not agree by any means, that allowing black people to see beauty in oppression is right...but I don't believe that is what Perry's intentions are. Sure, anybody can interpret a movie anyway they please. You see it this way, but a woman who is being beat by her husband and then goes to watch Family Reunion, could be given a spark of hope....you just don't know do you?.....And it's not that opression will disappear....that will only be the case when we reach heaven....but it's that God is with you. He is peace, love, hope, everlasting truth........His name alone places a hope in my heart for the eternal. This world is not my home, so I cling to Him, until I reach it. God teaches me everyday to change the world not to dwell in it's opression...and I really don't think you know what black social struggles a stronger faith has changed....Dr. Martin Luther King didn't do what he did, without prayer......it wouldn't have been nearly as significant if he would've and I can promise you that.....no he wasn't perfect, but the legacy and changes that happened and continue to happen because of his life, was nothing short of the grace of God....I hope your eyes are opened to some extent. I'm not saying Tyler Perry is perfect, none of us are....but there's more to this life than money...and I think he understands that. I babble sometimes and don't complete my thoughts, but I hope you can understand this. I challenge you to come to know God for yourself and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks! Have a blessed one! -
Posted By:
SilenceISGolden at 03/31/2008 9:09:31 AM
Comment:
Interesting article:
Based on his TV show, I don't think I want TP telling our people anything about economics or social behavior. Perhaps he can donate funds to a think tank or academic institution that can research those subjects.
Secondly, I find it Ironic that transvestites are condemned in the church. Yet, Christians are spending their money to watch a man in a dress spout spiritual advice. Another inconsistency found in the church.
Why are my people still using ancient text from Judah in modern day America?
God is nature.... God is in all of us.
Study, Get a degree, Get a job, Fight materialism, Buy a house, Get a quality loan, Get an Accountant and a Lawyer, Start a small business, fight materialism, Become Wealthy, Travel, Get married, Then have kids...
The "devil" can't stop you from anything if you have a respectable spouse, marketable degree, good credit and self confidence.
Side note: I always wondered why Adam and Eve were forbidden from eating from the tree of "knowledge." Will someone (sunday) school me on that part of the story? -
Posted By:
posttheist at 03/30/2008 6:14:26 PM
Comment:
Although I have not read all posts, many if not most of the comments made have either implicitly or explicitly stated a premise that most Americans hold to be true, but which more and more people in today???s world are learning to be false, which is a medieval belief in a deity that is going to intervene in ones life. Kind of like a pro basketball team praying in the locker room for aid in a victory against another pro team that is uttering a similar prayer; both expecting/hoping/having faith that they will be the "chosen people".
What of the Israelis, Palestinians, Muslim jihadist, and the Pentagon/Bush administration etc., etc., who all believe that a god is on they (sic) side? No one believes in Isis or any of the other dead gods anymore, so why believe in the latest most fashionable one, the god of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad.
Malcolm X educated himself in many great ways. On his trip to Mecca he learned that there were Muslims of every color, and came to the realization that all white people were not "blue-eyed devils". (But this may still be debatable.) He rejected the faith of his parents and community for a faith that he believed was more faithful to his oppressed people, but this new faith was/is no improvement.
I would like to think that had he not been stuck down in his prime (and at a time that he was discovering/learning that the "Honorable" Elijah Muhammad was not the kind of leader he thought he was) he would have continued to self-educate and would have learned that he and we in this culture (quoting the movie not the man) have ???...been had! Ya been took! Ya been hoodwinked! Bamboozled! Led astray! Run amok!???
I hope that he would have learned that, ???Surely there must come a time when we will acknowledge the obvious: theology,??? to quote Sam Harris (THE END OF FAITH), ???is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings.???
Our insalubrious belief is not just the fault of our leaders, teachers, and preachers, but of the neurological fact of the way our brains work and the fact that most of us humans are very credulous. (To read between the lines of what I have said many of you may have to do your homework. Read, read, read and question not just authority as the bumper sticker reads but question all default opinions/received wisdom/inherited beliefs; question everything. And I am open to being proved wrong. If the evidence weighs against me I???ll gladly flip flop, as our idiot politicians describe changing of one???s mind in the pursuit of truth and justice.)
In regards to TP's movie: Art imitates life.
I apologize for stepping on toes and if I have offended anyone.-
Posted By:
mahaley39 at 03/31/2008 2:42:00 PM
Comment:
I really enjoyed reading this post
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Posted By:
Risen at 03/30/2008 2:44:08 PM
Comment:
"Jesus' core teachings were about a love ethic that prioritized the poor and downtrodden and venerated the prophetic fight for political and social justice in the name of God."
I am very surprised to read this comment coming from one that teaches Religion regarding Christian thought.
Jesus' core message had nothing to do with worldly governmental or societal justice being the solution to man's societal woes. How could it when the very purpose of His appearance was to save mankind from their sinful nature and it's consequences.
This same sinful nature is at the root of not only the plight of the Blackman, but of ALL the human race.
This article seems to mock faith and prayer as the ONLY solution for an individual's everyday problems. However, since any society is made up of the singular individual units we call people, the society may only rise as high as each of those people choose to serve the society more so than themselves.
This is the message Christ bought to a dying world. Love God with ALL your heart, mind and soul. Love others (people) as you love yourself. He said this is the whole duty of man. -
Posted By:
Risen at 03/30/2008 2:32:03 PM
Comment:
"Jesus' core teachings were about a love ethic that prioritized the poor and downtrodden and venerated the prophetic fight for political and social justice in the name of God."
I am very surprised to read this comment coming from one that teaches Religion regarding Christian thought.
Jesus' core message had nothing to do with worldly governmental or societal justice being the solution to the woes of this world. How could it when the very purpose of His appearance was to save mankind from their sinful nature. That same sinful nature is at the root of not only the plight of the Blackman, but of ALL the human race.
This article seems to mock faith and prayer as the ONLY solution for an individual's everyday problems. However, since any society is made up of the singular individual units we call people, any society may only rise as high as each of those people choose to serve the society more so than themselves.
This is the message Christ bought to a dying world. Love God with ALL your heart, mind and soul. Love others (people) as you love yourself. He said this is the whole duty of man. -
Posted By:
Risen at 03/30/2008 2:26:00 PM
Comment:
"Jesus' core teachings were about a love ethic that prioritized the poor and downtrodden and venerated the prophetic fight for political and social justice in the name of God."
I am very surprised to read this comment coming from one that teaches Religion. Jesus' core message little to do with worldly governmental or societal justice. how could it when the very purpose of His appearance was to save mankind from their sinful nature. That same sinful nature is at the root of not only the plight of the Blackman, but of ALL the human race.
This article seems to mock faith and prayer as the only solution for an individual's everyday problems. However, since any society is made up of the singular individual units we call people, the society may only rise as high as each of those people choose to serve the society more so than themselves.
This is the message Christ bought to a dying world. Love God with ALL your heart, mind and soul. Love others (people) as you love yourself. He said this is the whole duty of man. -
Posted By:
raisonousreason at 03/28/2008 10:53:16 PM
Comment:
this is a really thoughtful article on tyler perry that deserves the wider conversation than it is getting here. i think that prof. willis is actually asking black people something about the efficacy of their own religious beliefs as much as he is holding TP to a higher intellectual/social and political standard. it's about time someone had the guts to really raise these hard questions to our people and I hope that prof. willis will speak more to this issue in the future in his writings.
to lump him into a role of 'hater' is to really miss his point and to claim that jesus is the answer is to confirm his argument: ya'lls christianity is in need of some real revising... -
Posted By:
gittreel at 03/28/2008 12:26:36 PM
Comment:
"Perhaps Hollywood is, in this regard, is being more responsible to black people than Tyler Perry." How so? Name one film in the last 5 years (besides perhaps Great Debaters) that offers a trasformative vision to Blacks; most films offier us pitiful stereotypes or invisibility - talk about narrow boxes. Your girpes with Black Pentacostalism would be better suited for a theological discussion, not a film critique. -
Posted By:
gittreel at 03/28/2008 12:14:22 PM
Comment:
You say, "Perhaps Hollywood is, in this regard, is being more responsible to black people than Tyler Perry." How so? Name one film in the last 5 years (besides perhaps Great Debaters) that offers a trasformative vision to Blacks; most films offier us pitiful stereotypes or invisibility - talk about narrow boxes. Your girpes with Black Pentacostalism would be better suited for a theological discussion, not a film critique. -
Posted By:
mwilbon at 03/27/2008 5:43:07 PM
Comment:
Tyler Perry is bringing humor, love, and Christian principles to mainstream audiences. Despite our sociological and psychological sensibilities (and I have a PhD in sociology so I understand them all), not only does Tyler's methods work, but so do the Christian principles he promotes. -
Posted By:
PHX at 03/27/2008 5:28:04 PM
Comment:
I don't understand the debate. Clearly Perry's work works for some. Let it do what it does. If it doesn't work for you, view one of the 10 other films playing in the theatre. We intellectuals can be so elitist and self-righteous at times. Just because you don't get it, doesn't make it wrong. -
Posted By:
leart at 03/27/2008 4:15:52 PM
Comment:
I have an interesting take on Tyler Perry, and I find it interesting that his Movies are of a better quality than his TV Series. I haven't watched the TV Series lately, but early on I didn't find it very funny for a Comedy Series. However, with his Movies, I think he has to find a way to eleminate the problem he has with "Knock-offs". Otherwise they will wipe him out. Meet the Browns will be the first one of his Movies that have universal Screen and Theater support and showing in my Community, so maybe the knock-offs will be lower.
leart -
Posted By:
vensoniq at 03/27/2008 3:18:36 PM
Comment:
Enough already!!!!! Why is anything and everything Black under the microscope these days. One man makes a statement (J.Wright) and all Black churches are scrutinized. Tyler Perry makes a movie and we question what it means for all Black People in America. His work is just another entertainment choice. Some of it is excellent, some is plain just silly. But we should all applaud what he is doing and his success. -
Posted By:
radovich74 at 03/27/2008 3:08:09 PM
Comment:
I don't know. I am inclined toward the position that is outlined above. And yet, it seems a little too simple-minded to do so. What if West African story telling motifs continue to drive how we discuss black people's lived experiences?
I think Perry does wrestle with deep issues such as domestic violence and "being your brother's keeper". HOW he speaks to the issues of black peoples lived experiences seems to be the real concern for some who would rather dismiss undeniably West African story telling or discursive frameworks that position our folks in an unfavorable light. Let's not forget that Zora Neale Hurston had to be "uncovered" by Alice Walker and others after years and years of her being thought of as distasteful and "choosing" to illuminate the more demeaning aspects of black people's lived experiences...Now however, she has a fesitval in her honor! So, I think the deeper question is why do folks like Tyler Perry, Zora Neale Hurston or Terry McMillian appeal to the masses of black people? What do they know about the heart of black folks that us more "academic"/"middle class"/"enlightened"/"proper" black folks find distasteful and reductive? The question really is, how do such writers create space through words and images for black folks to be distracted from thier own lives (cuz that is why we seek entertainment in my mind), and yet find enough symbols of the common meanings of "blackness" that we have internalized (good or bad, religious or not) that makes sense to us and helps illuminate something about our own world without having to "do work" to make those connections?? When are we going to stop being ashamed of being black? Most of us are descents from Africa somehow, and we thus come from an African oral tradition that is complex, ironic and distinctively different from Western Europen oral traditions. (one only has to spend a little time in a Shakespeare course to be confronted with such extreme disimilarities - not bad or good...just different...I've "grown" to love Shakespeare!) Just my thoughts! -
Posted By:
proreview1 at 03/27/2008 2:58:13 PM
Comment:
While well said, I do not think that this is a good comparison or an accurate justification for his art form or person being ignored. Why, I can think of so many more unworthy hollywood productions that made it to center stage "Hollywood Glitze" for glamorizing the most primative and disgraceful of human behavior: everything from greed, murder, to cannibalism and demonic wizardry. But that never stopped the other producers from hailing in the big "H" circle. I think you're comparing apples to oranges here... -
Posted By:
leenalah at 03/27/2008 1:56:51 PM
Comment:
I will have to concede to the author on this. While it is agreeable to see the characters that Perry portrays on in the mainstream, I am less than ecstaric about the delivery. The issues he explores are very real and complex for Black people, but the solution of prayer is over simplistic. That said(typed), I'm glad that we're seeing more positive Black movies in the mainstream. But I'm more interested in seeing the caliber of Black films like Love Jones, Two Can Play at that Game, or the Best Man. -
Posted By:
maxima at 03/27/2008 1:55:06 PM
Comment:
Let me say this from a purely capitalisitic perspective. The brother has found a niche of which he is filling and (legally) making money to boot. You cannot argue with the results. As for me, I am trying to get my daughter to go with my wife for the latest Perry movie, "Meet the Browns". I believe I can write one of these movies in my sleep, they are so formulaic! -
Posted By:
MominCT at 03/27/2008 1:36:55 PM
Comment:
Tyler Perry loves his people. He understands that his target audience - black women and their children - need to hear his message. Single black women and girls are the ones making most of children in the black community. Single black women and girls are the key to getting the black community back on track by waiting until marriage like the majority of the rest of society. Single black women and girls have failed the black family by following liberal white society's Hollywood lifestyle. The late Patrick Moynihan's prediction almost 50 years ago was right. Single black women and girls love Tyler Perry and his message, because it appears that the traditional black church has forgotten its roots. Thank God for Tyler Perry.-
Posted By:
anniemcw at 03/28/2008 11:33:04 AM
Comment:
I think it's unfair to blame any particular gender of Black people for failing Black Americans. To blame little girls is just illogical. Once could just as easily blame the Black man for not being better providers and father figures. Let's keep our minds open and everyone's spirit up. We ALL have to work together to make things better.
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Posted By:
Dread_Delilah at 03/27/2008 1:31:44 PM
Comment:
I haven't, until now, been able to quite put my finger on what it was about Mr. Perry's ouvre that unsettled me. So, thank you Andre Willis for clarifying my uneasiness.
I am a white woman in a mostly white town in a predominantly pale-ish state (Washington) full of bleeding-heart liberals with white-guilt complexes. I've observed the general population's very great need to Understand Black People; Tyler Perry's relatively recent outpouring of works have been snatched up by we pale idealists--a positive image of black life that looks to God/Jesus for answers and rarely involves racism, the legacy of slavery or scoioeconomic divides.
Perry's works seem to be a very well-intentioned and wrong-handed version of blame-the-victim, a message that only serves to let victimizers off the hook and quell rebellion, whether personal or political, among the victimized. Not to say there's no good to come from Perry's depictions of family-based, community-centric life, but I would like to see, as Willis suggests, Perry dealing with the more destructive issues facing minority communities. -
Posted By:
MominCT at 03/27/2008 1:31:07 PM
Comment:
Mr. Williams: In mentioning of Tyler Perry's "narrow" audience - "black women," you seem to forget that black women are the majority of the parents of blacks today. Most black families are made by single women and girls. They and their children appear to be his chief target audience. Black women are the ones who will fix the families. Black women are also the ones chiefly responsible for the state of poverty that black children are in. Black women should wait until marriage - a theme black Christianity seems to have forgotten - but Tyler Perry has not. Black women having children out-of-wedlock was the cause of the downfall of the black family, and they are also the hope of the family as well. If black women would just wait until black boys and young men grow up and take their place in society in order to take care of them and the children they produce - in marriage - black wholeness would come back. As long as black women and girls take on the job of a woman and a man in raising children, the black family will continue to fall apart. Thank God for Tyler Perry, because he truly love his people. -
Posted By:
fsilber at 03/27/2008 1:25:08 PM
Comment:
What religious faith most has to offer is that it can give black individuals the strength to stop sh*tting on other black people even though one may have amply been sh*tted upon by other blacks (parents, neighbors) over the course of one's life. Since most black suffering is the the result of people being sh*tted on one another, Perry's approach has more power than, say, using politics to try and get more money out of white people. -
Posted By:
Terioso at 03/27/2008 1:16:04 PM
Comment:
I'm wrestling with this article. I've seen a few Perry movies but none of his plays because I am not drawn to that particular genre. I think what bothers me the most about Professor Willis's point of view grows out of my own artist's perspective. A performing artist of any genre simply cannot be all things to all people. In some ways, I believe it's a great compliment when the public-critics and consumers alike-clamor for a broader or different treatment of an artist's work. It means that people are hearing you, seeing you and taking away some kind of meaning (whether it was the meaning which you intended or not) from your product. But then the attention begins to create commentary such as Prof. Willis's. While I agree with some points of this essay (I also have problems with the belief in Perry's movies that a stronger faith and prayer will fix all problems), I do take issue with the personal slant regarding Perry's supposed conservatism. While I live in Atlanta, I do not claim to know anything about Tyler Perry or what he's trying to communicate and it's a pet peeve of mine to read items that seem to espouse such thought. And while "Perry could very easily address issues of a living wage, health care or black-on-black violence by examining the structural conditions that under gird these features of daily life", he simply may not want to. That may not be where his voice lies. In fact, such a statement hearkens back to the days of artists for hire under the umbrella of the generous benefactor. "Don't write what you want. Write what we'll pay for." -
Posted By:
leenalah at 03/27/2008 12:48:59 PM
Comment:
I will have to agree with the author on this one. While it is agreeable that we see ourselves in the characters the Perry presents, I often find his delivery heavy handed and oversimplistic. Not to say he isnt entertaining, I just prefer more complexity in my story telling. The fact that his portrayal of what it is like to black is going mainstream doesnt make me ecstatic. Im still waiting for black films like Love Jones, Something New and Love and Basket Ball. Or anything where the characters arent blatant black stereotypes. Black people have layers I've yet to see displayed in mainstream film. -
Posted By:
BrutusBox at 03/27/2008 12:47:20 PM
Comment:
You are clearly stating your opinion as fact. Every statement you made concerning black pentecostal Christians is opposite of myself and my experience with people you would put in this classification. Man, anytime a positive black role model comes along, He's automatically an "Uncle Tom", which is clearly what you are insinuating. True relationship with Jesus Christ is the cure for all the ailments of the human race. -
Posted By:
rnlucy at 03/27/2008 12:46:20 PM
Comment:
I believe if black women are going through a struggle, of course, you need to get out of it(common sense), but God will help you out of whatever situation you are in. When using the example of how the daughter forgave her "blameworthy" mother, it is the God like thing to do because we hurt God's heart ALL THE TIME and yet he continues to forgive us. With God's help, the daughter will be able to forgive her Mother completely. Common sense will let us know that she hasn't forgiven her Mother completey, but that is what God is here for. To help us with any and everything that we may struggle, and need help with. Again, it is the God like thing to do. Every problem in Tyler Perry's palys and/or movies are basically saying to us women that yes, times get rough and hard, but you can make it, and with God's help and your common sense, along with determination, you will make it. Your are going to make it. We have no other choice! We struggle so we can have a testimony. How else can we tell of the goodness of the Lord if we don't go through anything? -
Posted By:
rnlucy at 03/27/2008 12:42:07 PM
Comment:
I believe if black women are going through a struggle, of course, you need to get out of it(common sense), but God will help you out of whatever situation you are in. When using the example of how the daughter forgave her "blameworthy" mother, it is the God like thing to do because we hurt God's heart ALL THE TIME and yet he continues to forgive us. With God's help, the daughter will be able to forgive her Mother completely. Common sense will let us know that she hasn't forgiven her Mother completey, but that is what God is here for. To help us with any and everything that we may struggle, and need help with. Again, it is the God like thing to do. Every problem in Tyler Perry's palys and/or movies are basically saying to us women that yes, times get rough and hard, but you can make it, and with God's help and your common sense, along with determination, you will make it. Your are going to make it. We have no other choice! We struggle so we can have a testimony. How else can we tell of the goodness of the Lord if we don't go through anything?
~Raven L. -
Posted By:
David L. at 03/27/2008 12:36:32 PM
Comment:
Thanks Willis for articulating something that I've sort-of disliked about Tyler Perry's plays and movies, something I can't really say without my comments being dismissed as "Well, you're white, so you don't understand."
Tyler's stage plays that I've seen on DVD are much more enjoyable to watch than his films...and for his ability to give uplifting stories to the African Am. community, in a format that all ages can enjoy, is truely a gift of genius that I don't think he gets enough credit for.
As a form of entertainment, it's fun to watch...but its really very formulaic stuff, and since I don't fundamentally agree with many of the religious underpinnings in these plays and movies, I end up leaving the theater unsatisfied. I think Willis' point is completely valid...and I know he'll get dismissed with the usual why-do-you-have-to-put-successful-black-men-down refrains by people in this forum. But is it too much to ask if Tyler Perry's vision could be a little more...realistic, or less dogmatic?
I guess if the world is divided between this and shows like The Wire, one could argue that Perry's work has a better, more constructive message of hope to the African Am. community...but at the same time, I have to ask my self the same questions as Willis does. Is prayer and good deeds enough in bring about change? Can all problems be solved if you believe in Jesus? I wish the world was that simple...but for me, it's not. And I guess that's why I just don't "understand." -
Posted By:
dcgi at 03/27/2008 12:16:57 PM
Comment:
From your article, I can see that your expertise does not lie in either theology, hermeneutics, or church history. The message preached by Jesus was about the coming Kingdom of God; not about a social utopia brought about by either armed struggle or mass protests. The Apostles preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that salvation will only come through faith in Him; as Peter said, recorded in Acts 4, "There is no other name given under heaven whereby you must be saved."
Perry's work is ENTERTAINMENT, not evangelism, not social comentary, ENTERTAINMENT. You seem to be unable to see past your political agenda to believe that some of us are not consumed with "being revolutionary," as you apparently think that you are. And by the way, contrary to your closing thoughts, prayer DOES work. Maybe not for you, but then, the Jesus that you talk about never promised to answer prayer, he was too busy being the prototype for Che Guevara.
Have you been baptized in Jesus' name? If not, you need to take care of that, before you atart commenting on what the Gospel is about. -
Posted By:
zeechee at 03/27/2008 12:13:47 PM
Comment:
I was raised in the Conservative Evangelical tradition with family members presiding over Tent Meetings going back to Reconstruction. I and others like me were very frustrated with the inability to engage in meaningful dialogue with our community. I discovered early on most of these followers were heavily dependent on their leaders and weren't aiming for their own understanding/study of faith or dealing with personal circumstances/family responsibilities beyond a "for show" level that bought them recognition in their churches as a good mother/wife, etc. No one addresses the male over female focus of the largely female driven org (cooking, organizing, etc.). Where I came from a woman who would strike out on her own would get whispers of "prostitution" while Deacons/Ministers who'd get caught impregnating under-aged girls would be pronounced targeted by demons because they do so much good.
From what I could tell, for the church women, the focus was on building a base a kind of self protection in that community and doing whatever necessary to maintain it to the neglect of personal responsibility. Every time an individual was found to be a hypocrite, everyone would claim they backslid (especially if it was a man) and welcome them back just like the do in Tyler Perry movies, even though the matter could include maternal neglect in the face of child abuse. Child abuse is rampant in these circles but ignored by the authorities who can't penetrate when evangelicals close ranks around "saved" members. I, to this day find this movement of people --who are largely ignorant the Bible as they spend far less time studying it than they claim to --bizarre and have not raised my children in the Church. My relatives are successful in the church recognized with grammys for their work in Gospel and the community itself is so tight, I don't think there will every be any kind of examination from within. There's too much money involved. Look at the History--black women activist/ leaders were saying the same in the 1920s about evangelical leaders keeping their churches full in service to their own pockets and distracted from real issues. The church has played a prominent and vital role, but if you try and talk about the cover-ups, hypocrisy and detrimental side, you get shot down. There is no freedom of speech, freedom to dialogue or criticize in the black church. That alone speaks volumes about the whether or not the movement helps the black community. -
Posted By:
Terioso at 03/27/2008 12:13:25 PM
Comment:
I'm wrestling with this article. I've seen a few Perry movies but none of his plays because I am not drawn to that particular genre. I think what bothers me the most about Professor Willis's point of view grows out of my own artist's perspective. A performing artist of any genre simply cannot be all things to all people. In some ways, I believe it's a great compliment when the public-critics and consumers alike-clamor for a broader or different treatment of an artist's work. It means that people are hearing you, seeing you and taking away some kind of meaning (whether it was the meaning which you intended or not) from your product. But then the attention begins to create commentary such as Prof. Willis's. While I agree with some points of this essay (I also have problems with the belief in Perry's movies that a stronger faith and prayer will fix all problems), I do take issue with the personal slant regarding Perry's supposed conservatism. While I live in Atlanta, I do not claim to know anything about Tyler Perry or what he's trying to communicate and it's a pet peeve of mine to read items that seem to espouse such thought. And while "Perry could very easily address issues of a living wage, health care or black-on-black violence by examining the structural conditions that under gird these features of daily life", he simply may not want to. That may not be where his voice lies. In fact, such a statement hearkens back to the days of artists for hire under the umbrella of the generous benefactor. "Don't write what you want. Write what we'll pay for." -
Posted By:
zeechee at 03/27/2008 12:11:51 PM
Comment:
I was raised in the Conservative Evangelical tradition with family members presiding over Tent Meetings going back to Reconstruction. I and others like me were very frustrated with the inability to engage in meaningful dialogue with our community. I discovered early on most of these followers were heavily dependent on their leaders and weren't aiming for their own understanding/study of faith or dealing with personal circumstances/family responsibilities beyond a "for show" level that bought them recognition in their churches as a good mother/wife, etc. No one addresses the male over female focus of the largely female driven org (cooking, organizing, etc.). Where I came from a woman who would strike out on her own would get whispers of "prostitution" while Deacons/Ministers who'd get caught impregnating under-aged girls would be pronounced targeted by demons because they do so much good.
From what I could tell, for the church women, the focus was on building a base a kind of self protection in that community and doing whatever necessary to maintain it to the neglect of personal responsibility. Every time an individual was found to be a hypocrite, everyone would claim they backslid (especially if it was a man) and welcome them back just like the do in Tyler Perry movies, even though the matter could include maternal neglect in the face of child abuse. Child abuse is rampant in these circles but ignored by the authorities who can't penetrate when evangelicals close ranks around "saved" members. I, to this day find this movement of people --who are largely ignorant the Bible as they spend far less time studying it than they claim to --bizarre and have not raised my children in the Church. My relatives are successful in the church recognized with grammys for their work in Gospel and the community itself is so tight, I don't think there will every be any kind of examination from within. There's too much money involved. Look at the History--black women activist/ leaders were saying the same in the 1920s about evangelical leaders keeping their churches full in service to their own pockets and distracted from real issues. The church has played a prominent and vital role, but if you try and talk about the cover-ups, hypocrisy and detrimental side, you get shot down. There is no freedom of speech, freedom to dialogue or criticize in the black church. That alone speaks volumes about the whether or not the movement helps the black community.
ps
I'm also tired of asking questiosn about why black folks love movies with men cross-dressing as women. -
Posted By:
zeechee at 03/27/2008 12:10:46 PM
Comment:
I was raised in the Conservative Evangelical tradition with family members presiding over Tent Meetings going back to Reconstruction. I and others like me were very frustrated with the inability to engage in meaningful dialogue with our community. I discovered early on most of these followers were heavily dependent on their leaders and weren't aiming for their own understanding/study of faith or dealing with personal circumstances/family responsibilities beyond a "for show" level that bought them recognition in their churches as a good mother/wife, etc. No one addresses the male over female focus of the largely female driven org (cooking, organizing, etc.). Where I came from a woman who would strike out on her own would get whispers of "prostitution" while Deacons/Ministers who'd get caught impregnating under-aged girls would be pronounced targeted by demons because they do so much good.
From what I could tell, for the church women, the focus was on building a base a kind of self protection in that community and doing whatever necessary to maintain it to the neglect of personal responsibility. Every time an individual was found to be a hypocrite, everyone would claim they backslid (especially if it was a man) and welcome them back just like the do in Tyler Perry movies, even though the matter could include maternal neglect in the face of child abuse. Child abuse is rampant in these circles but ignored by the authorities who can't penetrate when evangelicals close ranks around "saved" members. I, to this day find this movement of people --who are largely ignorant the Bible as they spend far less time studying it than they claim to --bizarre and have not raised my children in the Church. My relatives are successful in the church recognized with grammys for their work in Gospel and the community itself is so tight, I don't think there will every be any kind of examination from within. There's too much money involved. Look at the History--black women activist/ leaders were saying the same in the 1920s about evangelical leaders keeping their churches full in service to their own pockets and distracted from real issues. The church has played a prominent and vital role, but if you try and talk about the cover-ups, hypocrisy and detrimental side, you get shot down. There is no freedom of speech, freedom to dialogue or criticize in the black church. That alone speaks volumes about the whether or not the movement helps the black community -
Posted By:
areynolds at 03/27/2008 12:08:20 PM
Comment:
"Thoughtful folks"? Does this then imply that those of us who appreciate Tyler's work are an ignorant mass incapable of thoughtful introspection and dissection of Tyler's brand of entertainment and his message? As to your assertion that Tyler encourages Black complacency and submission to remaining in "your place". PLEASE! I have not found anything in his body of work that suggests ONLY prayer will solve the problems of the Black experience in America. What I have found is a strong foundation in a spiritual relationship with God coupled with behavioral changes in the characters have brought about their "happy ending". What is faith --- a prayer to God for a miracle while preparing yourself to receive that miracle. Preparation for a miracle necessitates some changes in yourself, some work on your part. In a drought, a farmer prays for rain AND cultivates his fields so he is ready to benefit from the prayer. This type of faith is what Tyler advocates in his work. -
Posted By:
leenalah at 03/27/2008 12:07:41 PM
Comment:
m -
Posted By:
dcgi at 03/27/2008 12:07:27 PM
Comment:
I think that you are "doing too much." perry's work is ENTERTAINMENT. It is not social commentary, it is not even, strictly speaking, a Gospel play (I have performed in some, and the message is much more overt). Finally, your assessment of Jesus' peaching along with the message preached by the 11 and Paul, is shaped more by your politics than by a simple reading of the relevant texts (fighting for political and social justice?). "Love your enemies; do good to them that despitefully use you; be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves..." Are you even reading the same New Testament? Regarding the Apostles, their preaching was even simpler: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved; Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized in teh name of Jesus for teh remission of sins...; Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures..." Neither Jesus nor the Apostles preached a message of social or political utopia, achieved through either "direct action" or mass protests.
HAve you been baptized in Jesus' name, or are you speaking as an outsider? For a more accurate assessment of Jesus' preaching, try reading Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "The Cost of Discipleship." And, by the way, prayer really does work; try asking your grandmother. -
Posted By:
Please at 03/27/2008 12:06:57 PM
Comment:
I don't know what I expected from this article. Disappointment is what I came away with. I am not a big fan of Tyler Perry's work. Madea and Tyler's portrayal of a black woman is offensive to me. It's personal, I'll admit.
However not as personal as the beef the writer of this articles has. I smell jealousy, envy and a lot of arrogance. All of that hiding behind the, yeah you're successful and people enjoy what you do, but you could be doing more...something I think is more noble.
Or as the writer puts it, "Perry could very easily address issues of a living wage, health care or black-on-black violence by examining the structural conditions that under gird these features of daily life?" WHATEVER!!! That's not what Tyler Perry has chosen. He has chosen to use his gift as HE sees fit. It's positive. It's a good thing. The author of this article should try to do the same. Please.
As for "Christianity requires that one live constantly outside one's comfort zone, against mainstream cultural values, and for something greater than themselves." My Christianity requires me to live within my own comfort zone, which is often outside of mainstream cultural values.
Study less...understand more. Please. -
Posted By:
JT1029 at 03/27/2008 11:58:29 AM
Comment:
Don't let Hollywood off the hook so easily. Afterall, they are responsible for airing this dribble that keeps millions of Afro-Americans, particularly women from
dealing with their real problems in a realistic manner, while earning millions of dollars at their expense. Two white attorneys once told me (to my face no less) that they like black people poor, dumb, and free. Seems to me Hollywood has just found someone black to do their bidding for them, while lining their pockets at the same time. Nothing new about this. -
Posted By:
MLHunt at 03/27/2008 11:50:58 AM
Comment:
Well-written, cogent analysis of Perry's body of work, which I've always viewed as pandering and largely unhelpful overall.
To those who extol Perry's promulgation of self-reliance: what movies are you watching? His message seems to be less about self-empowerment and more about putting it all in God's hands, as it were, which seems to me to be a sort of fatalism. -
Posted By:
stagolee at 03/27/2008 11:48:51 AM
Comment:
Bravo. I thought the exact same thing when I saw Diary of a Mad Black Woman, but could not give my words the historic and nuasanced analysis you did. All I could see was the Tyler Perry was in lock-step with the evangelical views sweeping America's political times. You put my thoughts down exactly. Good work. -
Posted By:
4taz at 03/27/2008 11:47:22 AM
Comment:
I agree with almost everything others have said. In addition, I am trying to understand what is so conservative about the message "Jesus saves, the Bible is inerrant and prayer is a panacea." It is the basis of Christianity. And if this is conservative, what does the picture of liberal Christianity? Jesus if He wants, the Bible is just a reference and prayer is optional? I would think that Rev. King would be just as staunch supporter of personal responsibility as Mr. Perry. Any Christian should be. It is preached in the bible and is just as important in 'progressive evangelicalism' as it is in conservative. It seems as if there may be a small disliking of Mr. Perry himself. The comments concerning being conservative, wanting Hollywood approval and criticism over subject matter......seem petty and are definitely incorrect.
As a Black Christian female, I would submit that Mr. Perry's plays and movies are not just for my demographic, but it is for all people who want to enjoy a movie that each member can relate to, enjoy and have discussions about.
As for the question posted by United1, I do not question why males say 'if you pray hard enough...' Why? Because it is not just males that do that. There are plenty of females that do the same. I am unsure of where you are demographically, but in the DC area, there are an abundance of females that talk of praying in addition to work! Now if women are not stepping out to reach their dream, I do not think it is because they are being 'controlled' by men.....it is because we have not made the choice to try. -
Posted By:
Roxane at 03/27/2008 11:46:31 AM
Comment:
.....complex subject that was done very well....my question(with it's implied commentary) is a tangential....at what point do African-American people actually acknowledge the micro-diversity within our race.....given the adaptive changes we have made moving in large number from the south generations ago....interracial marriages which expose and immerse both the progeny of said unions and existing families to different cultures, hence creating a more varied outcome...however we still share a common ancestry....I for one never knew of the "Black Church" experience until I was a fully fledged adult....fully fledged...that type of expression was frowned upon in the Congregationalist church I was reared in...yet I am surely Black....don't eat mammal meat....never ate chitterlings....but I am black....and have no intention of eating any....when will we be encouraged to explore our intra-diversity and let each expression stand as a validation of its own.....for we endure a similar struggle just painted on different sheets of paper.... -
Posted By:
PeterMark at 03/27/2008 11:39:19 AM
Comment:
Massey Tom -- The value of Capitalism is not only that everyone works to fulfill their own needs, but remember that capitalism involves "zero sum gain." For me to gain, someone else must loose. I must "exploit resources and labor" to gain more capital. The only thing that matters to the capital is gaining more capital. That is why it makes sense to the capitalist to send jobs overseas, wear labor is cheaper, rather than embrace a patriotic notion of production at home. Remember the what the largest institutions brought to you by Capitalism: THE TRANS-ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE!
Communism is based upon the understanding that once all have their needs met, they will stop trying to out-do others. Marx thought that people would transform spiritually and would embrace harmony. They would no longer WANT more than others. If you think of it. Christianity involves that same type of faith. Christians believe that if all would learn and understand the Gospel, they would be transformed spiritually -- they would no longer desire to embrace sin. Neither of those two philosophies can work unless adherents are willing to work hard to stay focused upon the message. If christians had done that, there would have been NO Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. -
Posted By:
yomama at 03/27/2008 11:37:46 AM
Comment:
Sorry Andrec, but your hate for a another black person to be financially successful just drips throughout the article. That and your disdain for anyone of the evangelical side of Christianity smells of intolerance. Maybe it is your pent up lust for TP in drag is what bothers you. Ofcourse you will lump me in the 'conservative evangelical' group, but hey, you act like you know everything about everybody. Everything except Truth. Grab a Bible and ask God to reveal himself (you got to mean it when you do it!) and see what happens. -
Posted By:
midi at 03/27/2008 11:31:57 AM
Comment:
Things educated Black people hate: Tyler Perry? -
Posted By:
mahaley39 at 03/27/2008 11:08:12 AM
Comment:
Often times its fun to go to the theatre and just laugh, however the stereotypes that are perpetuated in Tyler's movies and plays are becoming redundant and old. I am lookinf for something new and enlightening, as well as funny. -
Posted By:
Sociologist at 03/27/2008 11:07:42 AM
Comment:
Very interesting analysis. I feel it is only partly applicable though.
Perry's works are received by the masses, who take from it what the masses will, which is not necessarily the same analysis you have applied.
I do not beleive the majority of viewers come away with a final resolution based solely on "docility" or "god to solve secular problems".
Most viewers come away touched and with fragments of the total message.
Usually, hopefully, they learn that being understanding of one another and to consider more than the material things will lead to improved happiness.
Both lessons are dominating themes in his work, neither appeals directly to god.
I still feel your analysis applies, but it is only part of the picture.
I think it is worth addressing the idea of pandering to Hollywood and of glossing issues, and you may criticize what you allege as a lack of creativity. However, I feel Perry does exactly what he should.
Serious issues are received better through humor and sublety than academic analysis by the masses. Further, Perry has no obligation to attack his issues the way you would prefer to see him do so.
He has praised black women, family values, and depth of character more than the vast majority of entertainment does, and reached a large audience doing so.
Why ask for more? -
Posted By:
nikosdj at 03/27/2008 11:06:39 AM
Comment:
great article! Thoughtful and respectful insight into perry's work. There is nothing wrong with examining the social and political implications of an artist's work. Its obvious that the article is not trashing the man. On the contrary while recognizing his success it puts in contaxt.
Good stuff . . .
nikos -
Posted By:
mahaley39 at 03/27/2008 11:05:54 AM
Comment:
I AGREE i THOUGHT WHEN WATCHING THIS MOVIE THIS WEEKEND THAT THE CHURCH SCENES AND GRAVE YARD SCENES ARE REDUNDANT AND HUMOROUS BUT HOW FAR DO WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE STEREOTYPES -
Posted By:
Sociologist at 03/27/2008 11:04:30 AM
Comment:
Very interesting analysis. I feel it is only partly applicable though.
Perry's works are received by the masses, who take from it what the masses will, which is not necessarily the same analysis you have applied.
I do not beleive the majority of viewers come away with a final resolution based solely on "docility" or "god to solve secular problems".
Most viewers come away touched and with fragments of the total message.
Usually, hopefully, they learn that being understanding of one another and to consider more than the material things will lead to improved happiness.
Both lessons are dominating themes in his work, neither appeals directly to god.
I still feel your analysis applies, but it is only part of the picture. -
Posted By:
nikosdj at 03/27/2008 11:03:52 AM
Comment:
great article! thoughtful and respectful insight into the work of Tyler Perry.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out the political and social implications of it.
The article wasnt trashing the man.
On the contrary , it put his owrk in context.
Good stuff . .
nikos -
Posted By:
teresaneal at 03/27/2008 10:59:54 AM
Comment:
Black on Black violence? How about when the dope dealer shot his lawyer in "Diary of a Mad Black Woman?" Health care? How about when the nursing home was going to kick the mom out if the daughter didn't pay the bill? Living wage? How about when the woman in Diary of a Mad Black Woman got a job as a waitress and had to wait for the bus in the rain to get home and her new boyfriend worked in a factory and helped drive a moving truck on his off-day? You don't think the subject of a living wage comes to people's minds when they see the characters working two jobs like that? I disagree that these movies don't make the viewer think of the larger justice issues alongside the faith and forgiveness issues. -
Posted By:
Leeya_77 at 03/27/2008 10:53:37 AM
Comment:
I'm a black Christian woman who does not think Tyler Perry is the "end all be all". I find his work predictable, corny, unrealistic, and exaggerated. If you are looking for a good plot, don???t waste your time. At best, you might get a few chuckles from the overdone caricatures of black people. I am DEFINITELY not a fan of Mr. Perry, but I will commend him on turning this garbage into a million dollar hustle! -
Posted By:
Leeya_77 at 03/27/2008 10:47:31 AM
Comment:
I'm glad to see that I am not the only black person (and a Christian woman) that does not think Tyler Perry is the "end all be all". I find his work predictable, corny, unrealistic, and exaggerated. If you are looking for a good plot, don???t waste your time. At best, a few chuckles is what one can expect from some overdone caricatures of black people! I am DEFINITELY not a fan of Mr. Perry, thanks for the article. -
Posted By:
tohard43 at 03/27/2008 10:40:45 AM
Comment:
I think that we as being black americans need to stop blamming the white man and the system for what is going on in our lives.
we as a people would take the time to take responsabilty for our own actions teach our own kids what is wrong and what is right, we have gotton away from our grass roots and our herritage.
we are our own worst enemmies we love the street cornners we love to hang out in the back alleys of america we love to sale the drugs that are killing our own people.
we love the prison system because alot of us don't want or wish to work and it's so easy to take it and to kill some one for it.
we as a people have rode on the backs of Dr.King,Malcolm x,John F. kennedy
and various other great leaders of our times we must learn to walk on our own two feet and be the people that God ment us to be.
God brought the people out of bondage to be free so It shall be with our people he hasn't brought us out of bondage for us to enslave our own selves
Sincerely yours,
Emanuel j. Powe -
Posted By:
fel_tay at 03/27/2008 10:24:54 AM
Comment:
This comment is directed to Andre C. Willis and others who share his view:
Hollywood and the rest of America is not very supportive of christian values, which is the basis of Tyler Perry's works. America is trying to take christianity out out schools, television, and it wouldn't surprise me if 'IN GOD WE TRUST" was omitted from our money! GOD is the center of all things and if you improve your relationship with him, all things will improve, I am a witness. You need to seek GOD and find this out for yourself. Pehaps, in times when you feel compelled to write hateful comments about african americans that are going against the grain to reach a specific audience, you can explore ways to compliment them instead of down playing their efforts. You are only one voice, you cannot and do not speak for all blacks, so please keep your opinion of what Perry's work does for "black folks" as a whole to yourself. There are so many forms of ministry because we are all so diverse. Tyler's form of ministry reminds non-believers, backsliders, and scepticsd that it's never to late to turn to GOD. It teaches christians that we all make mistakes; we are not perfect, we are to enjoy life, to be appr