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Black Women Are Not Feeling the Feminists' Pain

By Marjorie Valbrun | TheRoot.com

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Black Women Are Not Feeling the Feminists' Pain

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  • Posted By:
    Compton Kid at 06/09/2008 9:59:04 PM
    Comment:
    Geraldine, Hillary, and Gloria, your profound indignation has been duly noted. I offer to each of you the same response that Black women and men have received for years. . . . . "GET OVER IT, LET IT GO, THAT'S HISTORY. Oh yeah, can't forget the ultimate one -- "No one in my family had anything to do with it." Anyway, some of my best friends are entitled white women that have NO excuse for not reaching their potential because the world has been served to them on a platter ALL of their lives.

    Personally, I find it unacceptable when you, and others like you, attempt to bring doubt,to the legitimacy of Senator Obama's political candidacy, but you, nor your mothers, grandmothers, or great grandmothers have ever had the nerve to hold your own men ACCOUNTABLE for the sexist lives they inflicted upon each of you.

    Geraldine, I'd work on my own house first. Hillary, what can I say. Yours is a lost cause --- no pun intended. And Gloria, well "it's your thang do what you wanna do".
  • Posted By:
    deemill at 06/04/2008 1:19:23 PM
    Comment:
    Comment: You guys of the liberal leftist media are something. After trashing Hillary because he is a woman and somewhat less liberal than Obama. Now you elevating an inexperienced man to the level of Greek mythology. I bet you if Hillary went to dinner at the so-called Rev. Wright 3 or 4 times, you hyppocrite of the media would trash her even more and call for her resignation. You are something! You sexist media will have the shock of your life when your little creation name Barack Hussein Obama will be sent back to South Chicago where he belongs to reunite with his friend Weathermen leader Bernadine Dohrn and Ayers (terrorists and criminals), RezKo (criminal), his spiritual leaders of 17 to 20 years Farrakhan, Wright and Pfleger (racists and anti-semitic), his racist wife Michelle (review her thesis, listen to her own comments, wait the upcoming tape). So how many pass are you derranged leftist going to give him. Are you guilty for your ancestors racisms? are you you mentally sick with your liberalism? Do you hate America so much by your communism? Do you hate George Bush so much that you are willing to put your ego first? At least george Bush never insulted America! After alll according to you, he stealed the election From Gore by getting elected when Gore won the popular vote. Why are you not outrage when Obama steal the nomination when Hillary won the popular vote? why don't you cry foul play when Obama got awarded with delegates when he removed voluntary his name on the ballot in Michgan? What are you not defending reverse racism and sexism? Your double standard is sickening. But get what? we the real American women and men for that matter, will be getting revenge in November and will send your little fictional creation named Barack Hussein Obama back with the terrorists that he belongs in the South side of Chicago.

  • Posted By:
    Tampa Diva at 03/25/2008 10:48:09 AM
    Comment:
    Excellent piece! what really troubles me is that for so long many of us have had to choose either black OR woman, which is what amuses me about Kare'n "black women settle down" message. for too long black women have been too quiet in the political and economic fields. When WE stand firm with black men our issues as women get dismissed. but when we hold fast to mainstream feminism out issues as blacks get diminshied. something's gotta give.
  • Posted By:
    stonehenge at 03/25/2008 8:57:15 AM
    Comment:
    Senator Obama is first and foremost a man. He is a black man, but black men have headed major banks, industries, brokerage firms and begun major businesses. There are few industries headed by women, Hewlett Packard once being one. That woman was hounded out of her role. But I am unaware of a woman of any color heads a major financial institution or industry, except for the unique Oprah who invented herself and her empire. So despite many opinions to the contrary, I believe gender is an even more difficult barrier to surmount than race.

    White women like Ferraro and Clinton were indeed raised with privilege. But there are limits to what they are permitted to attain. The glass ceiling exists, and it truly would be more of a societal change in this country to have a woman president than another man, even if that man is a black American.

    And Obama is no ordinary black man. He too was a child of privilege, raised with the highest expectations of accomplishment and attainment. From his writing it is clear he has experienced challenges because of his mixed race, but it is also clear that his road to success was paved with nurturing and guidance, something sadly lacking in many families regardless of race.

    Senator Barack Obama is a remarkable human being. He is brilliant, ambitious and accomplished. I would be proud to have him as our president. However I believe Hillary Clinton would be a better one for many reasons, including her greater familiarity with Washington and international politics. I don't believe she would be as dependent on advisors in formulating positions, and think it is time for a woman to head this country, as it has been men who have brought us to our present economic plight. I don't think a change of race in the White House would have as profound effect for change as would a change of gender.
  • Posted By:
    Gsilver at 03/23/2008 3:22:28 PM
    Comment:
    thank you for this piece. hopefully, it will help diminish the divides you speak of. it's past time to cast away the old ways of thinking. peace.
  • Posted By:
    Karen9 at 03/22/2008 9:01:16 PM
    Comment:
    Is the black women being disenfranchise? Are black women inferior because of their blackness? Does a black woman need blackness to avow her identity? Is the blackness of women being shred and substitute with the black collective? These are broad questions because lately, we have been offered answers to many narrow minded and leading questions meant to redefine us as black women and not as a woman. Black women let us be careful what we wish. It is contradictory to be angry at perceived inequalities and simultaneously package ourselves as a collective.
    A case in point is the anger demonstrated by the writer of this article. She is enraged by her perceived oppressor, Geraldine Ferraro. Is Geraldine a threat to your womanhood? The way I perceive it is, Geraldine is a woman with an opinion, as Marjorie is a woman with an opinion, as Karen is a woman with an opinion; as does other women have opinions. There is nothing more than opinions that separate us.
    If you want to vote for Obama that is your right as a citizen of our great country. However, if your choice is going to enrage you. If you are justifying your vote to criticizing another for their choice. If you are using your voice to deprecate all white women. If your vote for Obama is causing you to lose your individuality. Then the value of your vote may be worthless. An angry black woman is fruitless.
    Black women settle down. Do not be blinded by your blackness. You will still be black in the morning.
  • Posted By:
    cbrantley15 at 03/22/2008 6:08:25 PM
    Comment:
    I hvae only one thing to say... Their fears are showing... So, I celebrate their fears of a black nation... They want to win so badly that they are resulting into guerilla warfare... Obama just has to continue playing his game and he'll be fine... It doesn't matter whether the woman is white or black, the Clinton's wnat to win at all costs.... So, let them play dirty... I know who I'll be celebrating with come January 2009. OBAMA!!!
  • Posted By:
    Sadaka at 03/22/2008 3:00:40 PM
    Comment:
    Marjorie Well Spoken - Indeed this dissertation should be a NY Times OP ED!
    It's like a banquet. Every item is on the table, and it's ALL good!

  • Posted By:
    Sadaka at 03/22/2008 2:55:23 PM
    Comment:
    Marjorie, Well Spoken - Indeed this dissertation should be a NY Times OP ED! It's like a banquet. Every item is on the table, and it's ALL good!

  • Posted By:
    041649 at 03/22/2008 10:59:33 AM
    Comment:
    I agree with you 100%. Great article.
  • Posted By:
    charles_87 at 03/22/2008 10:45:47 AM
    Comment:
    This article is a joke. You accuse these women of not sharing the common woman experience? But does Obama share the common black experience? Growing up in Hawaii and indonesia? Columbia and Harvard Law School? Im voting Obama cause I think he will do the best job. I think Ferrero's comments were disgusting but can you really deride them and then at the same time say that Obama should be president because he's black. Pitting gender against race isnt gonna help anyone, thats why i dont support ferraro's comments but its also why this article is terrible.
  • Posted By:
    charles_87 at 03/22/2008 10:37:56 AM
    Comment:
    This article is a joke. You accuse Hillary of not sharing in the female experience by being privileged. Does Obama really share the black experience? Growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia? Columbia and Harvard Law School? Im voting Obama not because hes more authentic or even cause hes black, just cause I think he will do a better job. It seems like those who are deriding the tactics of making it about race are the same ones supporting Obama because hes black. Pitting race for gender doesnt really seem to be the way to go.
  • Posted By:
    Doug E. at 03/22/2008 3:25:10 AM
    Comment:
    I guess the question is if Geraldine would have had a snowballs chance in hell to be a vice-president candidate in 19?? if she were black?
    Doug E.
  • Posted By:
    kiburi at 03/21/2008 8:23:52 PM
    Comment:
    Excellent!!! Thank you for expressing many of my own heart-felt thoughts.
    As a African woman in America and a definite product of the '60s, the most disturbing reality is how "deaf, blind, and dumb" many whites (barring gender)continue to be about the myths of their own self-proclaimed supremacy and how irrationally fearful they remain about simply opening their ears, eyes, and minds to the truth of what really makes them so very different from blacks (barring gender) around the world. I have long understood that white women have a very different motivation for "feminism" than do black women. Like Jeremiah Wright, my analysis of this particular issue would put the eyebrows of many whites somewhere near the crown of their heads. Again, thank you for your truth and vision. Keep the faith!!!
  • Posted By:
    blu4vr at 03/21/2008 5:12:48 PM
    Comment:
    Yep, let's just keep tearing each other apart. Why make McCain waste his breath?
  • Posted By:
    ajhicks00@comcast.net at 03/21/2008 4:33:22 PM
    Comment:
    I wrote something already. I hope I'm not being repetitious. Basically, I said that as an Illinoisan, I have been a Barack supporter for several years. I had nothing against Hillary or her husband until recently. It is so true that black women and white women have differences that I don't think white women are aware of. I have simply concluded that our slave-master historical beginnings, plus years of segregation have forced different experiences. And although time has closed most of that gap, so much has happened through the centuries that we cannot realistically see things from the same point of view. Our lenses are just different. In addition, sometimes the total black female package alone creates its own unique experiences, something that no male of any color or no white female will ever go through.
  • Posted By:
    ajhicks00@comcast.net at 03/21/2008 4:05:07 PM
    Comment:
    Marjorie, I cannot thank you enough for saying what I have been feeling for some time now. I was a Barack supporter even before the Illinois primaries for U.S. Senate four years ago ( I live in Illinois) At that time, I had nothing against Hillary or her husband. They have succeeded in changing my mind. Sadly, I have even developed animosity for them both and have seen all those differences you have mentioned between black women and white women, and I am so sorry. When you are black and female, you know which one you receive the most hurtful discrimination from. And being the total package often brings its own unique experiences. Thanks for articulating the problem.
  • Posted By:
    HylasBrook at 03/21/2008 3:23:18 PM
    Comment:
    You've really put your finger on what is so annoying about Geraldine Ferraro's and Gloria Steinam's complaints. Obama is ahead in the nomination race because he has captured the imagination of many people and managed caucus campaigns better than Hillary Clinton. I voted for Clinton in the NY Primary and still think she could be President, but this upper middle class white feminist sense of entitlement is really getting to me. It's not like Clinton is getting creamed by a candidate like Fred Thompson.

    Of all the candidates in the chase to the Democratic nomination - I think there were 11 to begin with - Clinton has beaten all but one. Why such outrage? John Edwards retired from the field without whining about reverse discrimination.

    Hillary is losing the nomination because of her vote for the war, because of Clinton-fatigue, because she is too much like past candidates (Gore and Kerry) who lost. Yes, she's lost some votes simply because she is a woman, and some people have said few sexist things on the campaign trail, but NOWHERE in this entire campaign has she been written off or discounted because she is a woman.

    She has been treated seriously as a candidate by voters and by the media. But only one person can win the nomination, and if it isn't her, then so be it.

    The whole idea about fighting for civil rights and equal rights has been to be able to play on a level playing field. And that is what we've had in this campaign. Geraldine and Gloria need to remember that.
  • Posted By:
    Carla34 at 03/21/2008 2:32:29 PM
    Comment:
    What it boils down to: all women no matter race, religion or social class are all dealing with the sting of sexism. Wake up, ladies!
  • Posted By:
    redacted1 at 03/21/2008 2:18:44 PM
    Comment:
    As a white woman, I can't speak to how it feels to be a black woman, nor would I ever try. Many white women have tried and have quite obviously failed to do so. SUCH arrogance. I think part of the problem comes from the "lumping together" of people based on whatever separates them from the standard of white and male. Racism and sexism exist, just as race and sex exist. Most people wouldn't be able to hide their skin color or their not-maleness if they tried. These differences are visible, apparent, and it effects the way people are received, treated, it effects everything. But to assume that black people all think en masse, or that women think en masse, is absurd. This calls to mind the infamous question "what do women want?" which to my mind can't be answered because the category of "women" isn't this homogenous thing. If Clinton is elected will she represent all women? If Obama's elected, is he representative of "Black America"?

    I'm seriously freaked out by the notion that black women would be expected to claim EITHER their blackness OR their femaleness, as if only one of those factors truly mattered, as if you can parse out where a person's race ends and their gender begins, or vice versa. This election is being set up as a race v. gender showdown, which is typical since the media can't seem to stand complexity in any sense. Class hardly even comes into play anymore, as if it doesn't matter where or what economic reality one's born into. And that's just one of any number of factors that effect people's day to day lives, and that get washed over as the media attempts to reduce the messiness of real life into easily digestible sound bites.

    Ferraro's idiotic and hurtful remarks are being given far too much weight, because she's treated as representative of people other than herself. When a white man speaks, are his remarks treated as representative of all white men, or is he given the dignity of a singular identity?
  • Posted By:
    suemztln at 03/21/2008 1:21:57 PM
    Comment:
    Remember when Black Men got the right to vote their Black sisters were still decades away from that right.
    After Black Men were no longer slaves, both white and black women were still the property of their husbands.
    Don't say that women of color don't have a lot in common with their white sisters.
    SUe Retterer
    • Posted By:
      041649 at 03/22/2008 11:07:54 AM
      Comment:
      Suemztln: As a black woman, I don't have much in common w/a white woman. You don't know my situation, and I don't know yours. Until you get to know me, and I you then I will be able to see what we have in common.
  • Posted By:
    claude06 at 03/21/2008 11:42:42 AM
    Comment:
    why is the disgusting post by niggerhater still here after a few days? doesn't anyone else find it offensive?
  • Posted By:
    fayecanady at 03/21/2008 9:45:34 AM
    Comment:
    I find it appalling that white people get so offended about race. What do they have to be upset about? They want to keep the issue hidden when for us it is always right there in the open. The Geraldine Ferraros and Hillary Rodham Clinton's of the word are clueless when it comes to issues confronting Black Americans. They are fine with us when we back them not because they are the best candidate but because they are Democrats. Then they turn on us when we have a true choice. After years of supporting the Democratic ticket I am fed us. I have no party that truly embraces what I think America should be. I am disillusioned and saddened by this. Barack Obama's candicacy picked the scab on the racial wounds in America. Underneath the sore is still festering and no matter what type of oinment we apply until racial injustice is truly addressed in our country there will be no healing. White America you don't get it! Why do you feel so threatened? White folks' sense of entitlement is legendary yet they won't call it what is truly is "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" wrapped up and tied in a neat box labeled "White Privilege".
    Hillary Clinton and her crew are trying to hijack this nomination. If she does a great number of people both black and white will sit out the November elections.
  • Posted By:
    socialmedic at 03/21/2008 1:35:05 AM
    Comment:
    What does Barrack Obama's wife do? On what credentials will she run in 2012? Her law degree? Her experience in law practise perhaps. Her over-riding compassion for humanity beyond race? We hope it is not becaus a black woman slipped through the cracks and fully sanctioned and made excuses for as secreary of state the illegal and unwarranted war on iraq that everyone hates. AT least the women backing Hillary know what country they were born into. And value it. Being partially an immigrant what part of the world does Obama really belong to, the overpopulated third world or black america where at least some black people have been paying thier dues for a very long time.
  • Posted By:
    jspegues at 03/21/2008 12:25:02 AM
    Comment:
    Well spoken my sister. Thank you.
  • Posted By:
    jspegues at 03/21/2008 12:24:27 AM
    Comment:
    Well spoken, my sister. Thank you.
  • Posted By:
    doublesharp at 03/20/2008 9:52:13 PM
    Comment:
    I feel disgusted by all the hate going on here. Tearing the party asunder over who's more oppressed is immature and not good for black people or women.

    Rabid supporters from both campaigns remind me of the story from the racist and sexist Dr. Seuss; "The Zax." Two people standing face to face unable to budge because of foolish pride.

    I'm not saying that fighting for black or female equality is foolish; I'm saying that fighting each other is. Fighting between noxious supporters for both Democratic candidates is what McCain and the RACIST REPUBLICAN ESTABLISHMENT want. Fools.

    If voting democrats can't keep their cool and give a little, then black people and women will suffer. By suffer, I mean John McCain.
    • Posted By:
      kiburi at 03/21/2008 8:44:59 PM
      Comment:
      I think you missed the point. This is NOT about HATE. This is about TRUTH.
  • Posted By:
    Mirren at 03/20/2008 8:13:05 PM
    Comment:
    If you listen to all Ferraro said, the main point was that a female "Obama" would not be as successful as *he* has been. I'm a black woman for Senator Clinton. How does Senator Obama "identify" with many of the factors you site that, according to *you* should separate black feminists from white. The issues you list are further complicated by class and socioeconomic schisms. And, lest we forget, regardless of class, economic situation, education, or other potential priviledges, WOMEN are discriminated against throughout the world in ways that American women don't even recognize. Moreover, in our own country, we're still fighting for control of our bodies, be that with regard to childcare or to be taken seriously when we need to leave abusive relationships. As Robin Morgan put it recently, I'm not voting for Hillary Clinton because she is a woman, I am voting for her (in part) because *I* am.
  • Posted By:
    Scared4theUSA at 03/20/2008 12:26:24 PM
    Comment:
    I only have one comment that everyone should keep in mind. Unless you want to continue the destruction of our rights as people, you must vote Democrat no matter which candidate emerges. The Supreme Court has consistently rolled back our rights based on the Republican teachings and the next president will name new justices during their tenure. Unless you want more Roberts and Alitos, you MUST vote Democrat.
    • Posted By:
      OurTurn at 03/25/2008 10:35:32 AM
      Comment:
      You are correct. There IS a lot at stake. It is more than amazing how quickly and easily our controlled society was moved drastically to the right. I too, fear an unbalanced, non-representative Supreme Court. The loss of our rights is real, the TOTAL control of government by corporations is real and frightening. It is also real that I can not stand idley by and witness the savaging of one who looks like, thinks like and bears a responsibility as I do. What YOU don't understand is the AMOUNT of pain, the AMOUNT of suffering, and yes, the AMOUNT of anger, that people of African descent have had to endure for THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY NINE years. The despair, sacrafice, humiliation, rapes and murders suffered by my ancestors have given me the right and the DUTY to tell you and your brethern that WE will no longer suffer alone.
  • Posted By:
    hrladyship at 03/20/2008 12:01:48 PM
    Comment:
    In another recent column, a black woman writes of being criticized for backing Clinton instead of Obama. Many of her people can't understand why her sex is just as important as -- perhaps even more important than -- her race. In that column she wrote of women of every race being raped, killed, and otherwise abused in all parts of the world with little notice from the world. Such is rarely the case when race is the issue. This campaign has reflected the same attitudes when Clinton is criticized for how she looks by both the press and other candidates, and voters are quite willing to believe that anything they criticize her for must be true. The same is not true of Obama about whom nothing can be said when it comes to his race.

    Valbrun's comments only re-enforce the reality that sexism is still an allowed in this country while racism is not. People who have fought against racism and sexism in the past criticized those in power for not speaking out and working against them. Now, in this column, women in power who themselves are struggling against discrimination, are criticized for not being poorer and knowing what it's like for women who have struggled with less.

    Most of us are smart enough to know that the race card and the gender card are more a part of the news coverage than the news. Any small statement, even if it must be taken out of context, can be used against a candidate. Should race or gender be the only criteria for voting for a candidate? Decidedly not. But when two candidates share nearly identical ideologies, on what basis should one choose? Experience (Clinton is in her second term as senator while Obama hasn't finished his first), and who can better understand the issues that are important to me. As a woman, I'm voting for Hillary. As a citizen, I'm voting for Hillary.

    P.S. I am amazed that people still believe that President Clinton's worst error was taking Monica Lewinsky into a closet in the White House. The worst was that he lied. He lied to his family. He lied to us, the people. He lied under oath, against the very laws he had sworn to uphold as president.
    • Posted By:
      Christine at 03/21/2008 9:06:33 PM
      Comment:
      Obama has more legislative experience than Hillary when you include his years as a state senator. Plus, if you view the congressional record you might be surprised how substantive and substantial Obama's legislation-introduced and passed--has been relative to Hillary's. Hillary has some good legislation for women, children and healthcare to her credit. But the vast majority of the bills consists of commemorations, naming holidays, institutions, etc. Check it out yourself.

      My main reason for supporting Obama is that I do not like Hillary's initial vote for this disastrous war AND I don't like her foreign policy rhetoric. She doesn't sound much different from Bush and McCain, frankly. Is this her true stance, or just a facade as she tries to look tough as a commander in chief? America needs more friends, not more enemies. And this Iraq war was a real red button test.
    • Posted By:
      KMOORHEAD at 03/21/2008 3:57:23 PM
      Comment:
      Actually the worst thing was staying silent so long about the genocide in Rwanda. And even President Clinton has personally admitted that was his largest failing throughout the 8 years of his presidency. I digress...
  • Posted By:
    Edith at 03/20/2008 11:25:21 AM
    Comment:
    (sigh) This gets so irritating...once again, we're talking comparative pain. Perhaps it's because the article itself is about comparative pain, which I swear, I don't believe in.
    cafeazucar, what I said was factually accurate. Practice makes perfect, most certainly, but it is true that white men made sure that black men could vote before their wives could.
    I originally wrote because this woman invoked Betty Friedan, who was, I'm sorry, not about inclusion. I felt the article itself was inaccurate for its references.
    As a black woman of mixed heritage, and as a gay woman, AND as a Democrat, I will proudly vote for whomever the nominee is. Isn't that really what it's about? Both these candidates have almost identical voting records. Can we remember the actions, and what they do in Congress, instead of what's turning out to be a serious battle for the nomination? Can we win the war, instead of trying to win a battle or two?
    We ARE really all on the same side, are we not? McCain will most assuredly put more conservatives on the Supreme Court bench; regardless of how personally you feel about Ms. Clinton, there is no sign in her voting record, personal statements, or anything else in her life that indicates that she would not do what a staunch Democrat would do; save such issues as Roe V. Wade, that McCain might destroy by his choices. Obama would do the same. THOSE are lasting decisions; so why are we squabbling so much about who is going to represent us, when it's really their legacy of action that matters, not what happens in this primary?
  • Posted By:
    macrol at 03/20/2008 6:26:18 AM
    Comment:
    Thanks, Repubs have been complaining about these limo lib fems for years.
  • Posted By:
    kenbale2000 at 03/20/2008 3:53:26 AM
    Comment:
    You should not play up the "well educated well connected" card too much. Hillary Clinton did not come from money or privilege. She is well educated and well connected because she is smart and has worked hard to et where she is. And yes, she did have to overcome a great deal of sexism. Barack Obama came from more money and privilege than did Clinton. He attended what is described as a "privileged Hawaiian" high school and went to Harvard. He is also now well connected, otherwise he would not be running for president. I think Obama knows about as much about the suffering of black men as Clinton does.
  • Posted By:
    oldschoolwatch at 03/20/2008 1:18:16 AM
    Comment:
    Interesting. a lot of anger out there. Look no matter who the democratic nominee is get out there and support him or her. cutting off your nose to spite your face is just stupid. those of us who have were born in the fiftys, Lived through the sixties, Survied the seventys, Etc. you should know what's in store if the Republicans win this election. forget ferraro, forget preachers forget ( and this is hard to say.) Steinem. We have to get behind whomever and push like crazy. If the housing crisis and the war dont scare you. think about the impending reccession. That may be a full blown depression before it's over. think of how that will effect country. And if your black think of how it will effect you. four more year of fat cat deals to the banks, More corporate welfare for companies that dont even have operations on U.S. soil. More deregulation allowing the creditcard companies to set their limits even higher. How can we argue about race. It is a moot point as more and more white people relize that they are about to become targets. As they watch there homes and autos get repo'ed and their jobs get exported. As their savings dwindle. they ask the same question that we (black Folks ask.)where is the safety net? There aint one. No GI bill. No Levitt town. No great public works project that they are assured of getting hired on. The republican stimulas package ? 3 or 4 hundred bucks. All people regardless of race need to vote with their minds not their emotions. Dont listen to the peanut gallery that follows the candidates around. Dont pay too much attention to the press that want's, no needs to stir the race pot. It's what they're comfortable with. Thank our lucky stars that Obama has not risen to the bait. One of thease two has a chance to make history. The fact is who cares? McCain wants to continue with a Soul crushig Debilitating war For the next forseable decade at least. He thinks that the present economy is fine. man woman black or white. We wont survive if we dont stop the republican in this election.That land of opportunity talk that flows so freely from the lips of those who have none, will be squelched. As we watch the chance for true advancement go to a smaller more elite group of people. Any chance to own property or a business will require a fortune just to start. It is time for a change. A new direction. I belive that either of these candidates will give us that. There is going to be a very intersting frontline on this election and I for one can't wait to hear they're take.
  • Posted By:
    nycmediachick at 03/20/2008 12:48:46 AM
    Comment:
    I tend to agree with Valbrun. But I think the problem is more generational than racial when it comes to the Clinton disconnect. I'm a 30-something Black woman, and I think that for most women my age and younger, black or white, the issue of gender just doesn't resonate as strongly as it does for older women. And unfortunately, Clinton isn't really speaking to what gender issues that do exist in this day and age. I mean I haven't heard her say anything about ensuring that women get paid the same as men, or anything about ensuring affordable, flexible, and quality child care that is all too important to the career aspirations of women in today's workforce, many of whom are single mothers. Health care and the Iraq war benefits all Americans, issues that Obama is championing as well. But neither of those issues can be identified as specific to gender. I think Obama's appeal is also one of what appears to be his diplomatic style. He seems to be a person who may be better able to truly make health care and Iraq changes happen because he does not seem to be as alienating as Clinton. I think the country is ready for a female president. I'm just not sure they're ready for Clinton to be that woman.
  • Posted By:
    elizfo38 at 03/20/2008 12:04:37 AM
    Comment:
    Black women have never had the luxury to be feminists, since we came on the same slave ships as our black brethern. Our struggle has been based on our color, not gender. And when have white women shared power with us? They have been the benificiaries of Affirmative Action, not us. Their so-called sisterhood is one of snobbery, elitism, and racism. I stand proudly with Barack; his candidacy gives power to all of us!
    • Posted By:
      claude06 at 03/21/2008 11:37:35 AM
      Comment:
      of course you must know that all white people do not come from privileged backgrounds. although our ancestors did not come here by slave ships, many had to leave their countries because of oppression and starvation. in my union which includes both black and white men and women, men of any color are always given positions of power before any woman.even tho i'm a white woman, near hillarys age, and i admire many things about her,i voted for obama in the primary because i feel he offers this country a new vision. to see the bickering on this page about who had it worse, is very sad.
  • Posted By:
    elizfo38 at 03/19/2008 11:51:00 PM
    Comment:
    Black women have never had the luxury to be feminists. We did not come here on the Mayflower; we came here with our black brethen on slave ships! It is laughable to pretend that "Miss Ann" ever saw us as part of any "sisterhood," with whom she would share power. White women have been the beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, not us. The white feminists belong to their own club, one of snobbery, elitism, and racism. I could not be prouder of Barack. His candidacy gives power to all of us!
    • Posted By:
      claude06 at 03/21/2008 11:25:43 AM
      Comment:
      this kind of attitude is part of what keeps this country segregated in mind and spirit. i'm sure you are aware that all white people don't come from a privileged background. many of our grandparents, came here as immigrants, and while not forced here on slave ships, often left oppression in their own country. as a white woman, i don't live a lifestyle comparable to hillary and gloria steinem, or many others who have stood for feminism. but we need to be thankful to those women of any color who have stood against inequality and for the future of women. i work w/ balck and white men, who are both able to reach positions of power before any women .
  • Posted By:
    gerrytyrrell at 03/19/2008 10:10:31 PM
    Comment:
    I am a 40 something,white gay male originally from Kentucky. I am inspired by Obama like no other politician in my lifetime. I concur with Marjorie Valbrun's sentiment. I started this campaign with a positive impression of Ms. Clinton. After 8 years of Bush, I was remembering the 90's with a lot of good will and sentiment. However, I was ready for a change from the Bush/Clinton era. Since she started to loose, Ms. Clinton's behavior has more than disappointing and smacks of demagogary. When her campaign tactics make me angry, I think back on the Clinton presidency and wonder what if Bill Clinton had not drug the country and the Democratic party through the Monica Lewisky scandal but resigned and let Al Gore become president. Maybe the world would be a better place? It feels like the Clintons are power hungry and willing to sacrifice all ethics in their own pursuits. How can Clinton honestly say that she won Michigan when Obama's name was not even on the ballot. The "Shame on you Barak Obama", "Ken Starr" and "right out of Karl Rove's handbook" make me wonder about her "right wing conspiracy" statement years ago. I think about the phrase "Slick Willie" and think now we have "Slick Hilly". I feel like the press has treated her deferentially (like the frontrunner) from day one and discounted Obama until he won 11 states in a row. If she had won 11 states in a row - Obama's campaign would have been written off long ago. Obama's honesty and ethics give me hope for our country and I will work as hard as I can to support him. If Hillary is nominated, I don't know what I will do - but I feel like I would vote very reluctantly for her at this point.
  • Posted By:
    kirasanders at 03/19/2008 9:19:11 PM
    Comment:
    The title of this article should have been "This Black Women Does Not Feel the Feminists' Pain." Your title implies that all black women agree with you or that they have your back. Take ownership of your opinion.

    I'm not sure whether you are asking me as a black women to rank race and gender. In any event, I am as unwilling to accept racism from a white person than I am to accept sexism from a man of any color (and you know many black men have gender biases). Nor will I be forced to declare that the sting of racism burns more than that from sexism.

    I think Gloria Steimen made a good point when she spoke about gender as a more restrictive force. Here's an exercise: Have you ever heard any call Ms. Clinton the B-word? Undoubtedly you have and it did not bother you. Have you ever heard anyone call Mr. Obama the N-word? Undoubtedly you have not and if you did your level of outrage would be immeasurable. The fact of the matter is that many Americans are more comfortable with their sexual biases than they are by the racial biases.

    I do not think it helps your argument to play the elite or and privilege argument. Both Mr. and Mrs. Obamawent to Ivy League schools and now live in a home worth over 1 million. If that's not privilege, I don't know what is....

    Now, to Ms. Ferraro's comments: I think she certainly has a point when she says that Mr. Obama's sucess is due in part to his race. He has inspired a large majority of the African American voters to actually get out and vote. There are countless interviews of black people talking about how they never thought they'd see a black president. Many of his largest victories are due, in part, because he received over 90% of the black vote in places where that vote makes up about 30% of the electorate. I don't think this belittles his victories in states where there was not a large black vote, but it certainly must be acknowledged that the black vote has helped his campaign. Else, you are arguing that it is a simple coincidence that so many black people are voting for him, which you know is not true!

    The black vote has helped Obama as much, if not more, than the female vote has helped Ms. Clinton. By failing to rationally examine Ms. Ferraro's comments, as opposed to instantly reacting to them, you missed her point. Could Ms. Ferraro have made a better choice of words, of course. But is she a racist, I highly doubt it!

    Finally, please think twice before you threaten Ms. Clinton with the vote of the black electorate. That type of fear mongering is exactly what Democrates have accused the Christian right of doing for the past eight years and has gotten us no where. If you want to get out of the war, encourage people to vote the democratic ticket regardless of who the nominee is. Mr. McCain plans keeps us in this war until 2016 (assuming he gets elected to a second term).

    In any event, I'm not even sure you could follow through on your threat!
    • Posted By:
      Datdamwuf at 03/29/2008 3:40:08 PM
      Comment:
      thank you for this post, as a "white" woman I can't know about racism but I have certainly experienced sexism. I am highly successful with no degree but it took many years and having to always work harder and longer than the males around me. I'm 40 something, when I went into IT I was the ONLY woman I knew in the profession, when I moved into IT security I rarely saw a woman. That has changed, and in my lifetime! I am proud that us old feminists managed to break some barriers so that younger women no longer think our issues are their issues. It means we made progress, I love that both black and white women are represented in my field now. Hopefully those younger women can bridge the wage gap and move the glass ceiling up a few rungs in their lifetimes.

      Lastly, I for one am glad that those "privileged ladies" stood up for us and helped us get the vote, get into jobs we need, and all the other things they've done. Honestly, when you are working all the time you aren't likely to be the activist who has time to truly organize and make the difference. Those "privileged ladies" made a contribution to our equality with the help of many more less fortunate.
    • Posted By:
      nneoma at 03/21/2008 1:39:43 AM
      Comment:
      maybe in your day-to-day life sexism bites more than racism, but historically this is not the case. (and like you hinted, your individual experiences does not necessarily reflect that of all black people) The US has a historical precedent of aggression against minorities, regardless of gender. Black males are more likely to be stopped by the police, and placed in jail than white women. White women make twice as much, on average, than black women. White women are more likely to finish high school and attend college than black men. However, these facts should not have a bearing on the current presidential race because like I said the president will have to preside over all people.
      • Posted By:
        kirasanders at 03/22/2008 9:35:11 AM
        Comment:
        Thank you for responding to my post and for respecting my opinion. However, I nver said that sexism stings more than racism. My point is that they both hurt equally as much. By the way your statistics are off. For 1994, the census reported that black men make more than white women. Also, black women who have a college degree or some college training actuall make more than white women. Black women who did not go to college made less than $1000 less than white women. Also, there are more black women living under the poverty level than black men. See http://www.maec.org/stats.html#income25
      • Posted By:
        kirasanders at 03/22/2008 9:26:47 AM
        Comment:
        I don't know what your day to day life is like, nor will I presume to guess your feelings on any subject, but my point is that sexism and racism bite equally as hard! I grew up in a all black city in the Midwest, went to a predominately white college on the East Coast, law school in the South, and now live in the Pacific Northwest. I've dealt with both racial and sexual biases, as most women of color have, and in my opinion, they suck equally as much. Also, I made no representation that my individual exprerience is representative of the black experience. I'm only giving my opinion.

        I disagree that historically racial biases have hurt more that gender biases. While the US has a historical precedent of aggression against minorities, the same can be said of this country's track record on aggression agaisnt women. It is true that black males are more likely to be stopped by the police, and placed in jail than white women. But it is also true that whitel women, but by focusing only on the plight of black men, you forget that black women also fact the same issues. In addition, women of all colors are subject to an extreme amount of violence by men; check the assult, rape, and spousal abuse statistics. Ask your female friends how many times they have been groaped on a date or expected to put out because their date bought them dinner. Ask them how many times they have been subject to inappropriate conversation and contact at work by their co-workers and supervisors. Ask them how safe they feel reporting these incidents to their employers.

        I'm sure you have looked at the statistics regarding poor whites as compaired to poor blacks... Their graduation rates are just as low as that of black men and women. Also, blacks who come from wealthier backgrounds are graduating at the same rate as whites in the same income bracket!

        I think your statistics are off. While white women make more than black women, white women also make less than black men. To me, that is both a race and gender issue, not either or. Also, the gap between white women and black women is not twice as much: http://www.maec.org/stats.html#income25

        Thank you for your response to my post and your respect for my opinion.

        Also, what is with the comparison between only black men and white women? Look beyond the obvious and see how people compare across economic line. I do not belittle the experience that blacks have suffered in this country in the same way that I will not belittle the same experiences women have in this country.

        I will not put my race above my gender. Nor will I put my gender above my race.
  • Posted By:
    girlinworld at 03/19/2008 5:44:50 PM
    Comment:
    The issue seems to me to be: are you black first or are you a woman first? Since whites don't have a racial identity per se, this question is easy for me. And I have a tendency to extrapolate my situation to other women--be they black or white. My self-interest lies in sisterhood.
    Evidently, for black women, their self-interest lies in brotherhood. Or so it seems to them. I have my own opinion regarding this: I think most men are sexist, black or white or brown.
    Sisters, we are in this together. Beneath appearances, women have more in common with other women than with the men of their race or class.
    • Posted By:
      nneoma at 03/21/2008 1:34:41 AM
      Comment:
      i disagree that all women share more in common with other women regardless of race or class. this a a sweeping generalization that does not hold true for everyone.
  • Posted By:
    ireneyehudit at 03/19/2008 2:57:40 PM
    Comment:
    I really liked the way you brought in Friedan....Hilary Clinton and her wining friends have destroyed what was left of feminism....women power which grows out of our caretaking work in communicites, who juggle and put our kids first if we are blessed to have them has nothing to do Hilary. I don't hear Nancy Pelosi whining.
  • Posted By:
    Houston Texas at 03/19/2008 2:33:51 PM
    Comment:
    If Obama was a white man he never would have made it past Iowa with such a light resume. A woman of any race and he wouldnt have even made it to Iowa. All GF was stating is that the main stream media is afriad to make him answer questions for fear of being called racist.

    Funny, I know where Clinton stands on all issues. I know where McCain stands on all issues. I have no idea where Obama stands on most issues except he is hoping for change. He hasnt mentioned how that will occur. I guess wishing makes it so.
    • Posted By:
      nneoma at 03/21/2008 1:09:39 AM
      Comment:
      go to his website and find out where he stands....*rolls eyes*
  • Posted By:
    Houston Texas at 03/19/2008 2:23:54 PM
    Comment:
    You said that if he were a white man the black community would not get excited about the historic first. If he were a white man he never would have made it past Iowa on such a light resume.
  • Posted By:
    Kalestine at 03/19/2008 1:17:02 PM
    Comment:
    Ms. Valbrun,
    Thank you for this post. I agree, and have talked with my friends about this since the campaign began. I voted for Bill Clinton twice, supported him during the Lewinsky scandal, and supported Hillary financially for the Senate--and I'm a Floridian. I understand politics and the media -- they love the story of "first" , so they keep a non-issue as a news story for days.
    But in this entire political story I have been more turned off by these feminists playing the victim more than anything. This attack on Sen. Obama from Ferraro was way off base. And though some seem to think that Black men have more power and opportunity than white women because they are men are really out of tune with what really goes on in country. The attack on the black male is misplaced, because a black man; Fredrick Douglass was in the battle to help women get the right to vote. Yes, black men recieved the lawful right to vote before women did, but they weren't allowed to cast a vote. Anybody remember the stories of the number of black men that were killed trying to vote? White women had the actual opportunity to vote many years before black people, but they chose to continue voting for white males.
    I want Sen. Clinton, Ms. Steinem, and Mrs. Ferraro to stop acting like victims, and start being the strong women that we all respected before this presidential race started, then maybe just maybe Sen. Clinton would get my vote.
  • Posted By:
    jeo at 03/19/2008 10:56:57 AM
    Comment:
    an end to affirmative action in the workpace for black women?? great and fine ...feminsim can move beyond you and serve only women's equality for women who don't bite the feminist hand.
  • Posted By:
    jeo at 03/19/2008 10:47:08 AM
    Comment:
    Note to black ladies!

    enoy the wage gap you must love!!
    Obama suffered greatly...two ivy degrees (in a time when affirmative action was well in play!) and the 1.6 million he now earns. he embraces racism because he is angry?? at what!? he is a man who w a few months senate time decided to run for an office because HE is the CHOSEN one. PLEASE, black ladies...get REAL. black men did not come and deliver the vote to you...they left you in the dust,....while Feminism has been ur best friend. feminist fight for your rights! AND even with the same nice degrees that Obama male has... you black woman... with those degrees can expect to make roughly half what Obama the male makes when the both of you are 8 yrs into ur careers! so toss away Feminism ! maybe it is time feminism tossed you back as well !!
  • Posted By:
    jeo at 03/19/2008 10:38:47 AM
    Comment:
    nasty the classic sign of Obama supporter..name calling and anger!
    how about this reverse:
    Note to Obama: get over yourself! YOUR cries of racism ring hollow. obama should be allowed to embrace racism and say ok then, i'm a little bit angry! why because obama was raised with all these wonderful advantages that the majority of Americans were not! He makes 1.7 million a year!!!
    Obama trots into the Senate, does a few months of minor work and decides he is the chosen one...not because of his race but because....wait, why...??? oh yes, because HE is what...is he...CHANGE. Another whitish male president is not Change, it is MORE OF THE SAME. change is a woman president! so black ladies...try this on for size: black men did not ride to ur rescue and get you the vote! and black ladies...this as well.. you can get the same ivy degree Obama has but...wait 8 yrs and you will make far far less than black, white or red males of same degree and calling! trust this black ladies --you are only doing yourselves dirty nasty name calling. Obama himself admitted he'd not be where he is w/out the 1/2 black father. but you will be exactly in the same wage gap of today until a woman weilds true power.
    • Posted By:
      KMOORHEAD at 03/21/2008 4:17:29 PM
      Comment:
      Given your comment and glass house throwing stones position, I'm assuming you identify yourself as a white women. Last time I checked, you all make more money than black men and black women (not that that was the point of this article, but it somehow made its way into your circular Barack-attack argument) Anyhow, I'm growing tired of these circular conversations between women on opposite sides of the democratic fence - both who most likely call themselves feminists. Change is a black or female president. Ask my son who's facing statistics of more black men in jail than in college. Seeing a brother as the president, that's a change for him, both a personal and a positive one. Seeing a woman in office, although maybe not quite as relevant to his own life experience would also be something difference. Seeing Bush out after 8 years - thank God not the same, not the same. But there is this privilege that comes in when we try to have these types of dialogues where you will only acknowledge change when it's change for YOU.
    • Posted By:
      nneoma at 03/21/2008 1:14:18 AM
      Comment:
      he wasn't "raised" with all these privileges. He first attended Occidental College before transferring to Columbia on his own merit. When did it become a crime to move up the socioeconmic ladder?
  • Posted By:
    Bellini@5 at 03/19/2008 10:31:51 AM
    Comment:
    I echo the same sentimes and blogged about it a month ago.
    http://5andapossible.blogspot.com/search?q=An+Indictment+on+Feminism
    I'm based in D.C. too.
  • Posted By:
    Bellini@5 at 03/19/2008 10:30:15 AM
    Comment:
    I echo the same sentiments too and about a month a ago I wrote An Indictment on Feminism levying many of the same charges against feminism
    http://5andapossible.blogspot.com/search?q=An+Indictment+on+Feminism.
    I am based in D.C. too.
  • Posted By:
    cafeazucar at 03/19/2008 6:04:37 AM
    Comment:
    IMO and Edith --- "White men gave Black men the right to vote fifty years before White women"? I think you need to check your history. Umm....does the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 have any resonance in history for you? These laws were enacted because Blacks -- women and men -- were repeatedly denied the right to vote in practice--despite the Constitutional guarantees granted earlier. Black men were routinely lynched and terrorized for voting or attempting to vote all throughout the 20th century. White men hardly gave anything to them. The right to vote for Blacks was won.
  • Posted By:
    POLpursun at 03/19/2008 5:42:56 AM
    Comment:
    It is astounding that the fact that black men obtained the right to vote 50 years before women is proffered as an indication of how, let's say, sexism is worse than racism. What about the history of the actual act of voting in America, from the perspective of black people, over the time period from when black men obtained this right to, say, the passage of the voting rights act in the sixties? Indeed, if one, for instance, contemplates Florida in 2000 and subsequently, a case can be made that the back-end of that time period be today, at least in some instances.
  • Posted By:
    roquad at 03/18/2008 9:51:11 PM
    Comment:
    Thank you sister!!!
  • Posted By:
    rebeccawalker at 03/18/2008 4:31:12 PM
    Comment:
    I agree--and here are my two posts on the topic:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-walker/the-fence_b_81347.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-walker/feminist-infighting_b_89339.html
  • Posted By:
    ResearcherReader at 03/18/2008 2:39:02 PM
    Comment:
    I found your article equally refreshing as Obama's candidacy. Sincerely hope it's widely read, deeply pondered and will serve to enlighten the status quo. Otherwise, how else will a most powerful nation regain it's losT ground at home and abroad, if all of it's valuable components (people of all stripes and credentials) not be brave/strong enough to face the real daily issues and stop hiding from/avoiding race and gender relations in discussions.
    "Can't know it and not deal with it to move on positively/creatively" G.L.
  • Posted By:
    IMO at 03/18/2008 2:24:31 PM
    Comment:
    No, you need to get over YOURSELF. Ironic that you attack the "well-educated and well-connected" women mentioned in your article. Come on now, doesn't the same label, indeed, apply to the upper income, Harvard-educated Obamas? Gimme a break! And, if you're going to dredge up history... why don't you go back a tad further? Hmmm... here's a fascinating fact, black men in the U.S. got the vote a full FIFTY years before women of any color. Just stop and ponder that for a moment. White men gave the vote to their former slaves BEFORE their own wives. Today, a women's right to control her own reproductive health is very much under attack. In this country, historically as well as present-day, sexism is still very much alive and well. Get your head out of the sand! And yes, to my mind, many of the media were obviously biased against Clinton (and I'm not even a Clinton supporter - that's how blatant I feel it was - I mean everything from her voice, to her hair, to her clothes was eviscerated by the press). Interesting that a recent media survey seems to bear out a distinct bias against - so, I guess their complaints are not ringing so "hollow" anymore, huh? If anyone is being divisive about "sisterhood", perhaps it's you. Food for thought.
  • Posted By:
    Edith at 03/18/2008 2:19:34 PM
    Comment:
    I'm really confused by this...you reference Betty Friedan, who was known to be divisive when it came to women, bourgeois women in particular. She addressed, for the most part, a certain class of woman, that tended to be white women. It is what she is primarily criticized for, from black scholars. She also was extremely homophobic, and believed that lesbians had no place in feminism. She changed her view with time, surely, but please check your facts, especially "The Feminine Mystique," before touting her as any sort of example of inclusion. Ferraro and Clinton directly reflect the Friedan woman, as does Anna Quindlan, Ann Richards, and a myriad of other scrappy (albeit white, for the most part) women who found inspiration in her words.
    What Gloria Steinem was referring to, specifically, was if Barack Obama was a black woman, would he be in the same spot? Why is that not a valid question, to the extent of where we have to have knee jerk reactions of "thousands of unemployed black men in America who would gladly trade places with you and women like you whose lives bear few examples of social and economic deprivation" conversations? We can't have a discussion in this country about sexism vs. racism without it blowing up into a discussion on comparative pain. Not even in the black community, can we have this discussion, without addressing loyalty, especially to "our" black men.

    By the way, Black men DID get the vote before women...a good fifty years before, in fact. This is a fact I find very interesting, in this conversation about what has happened to whom, and all the privilege that white women have been privy to. This HAS happened before -- while you're studying your history, follow Douglas vs. Susan B. on this particular issue. Even Douglas, a staunch "feminist," thought white women had the right to vote by proxy. Are we so sure black women would feel the same way?
    Incidentally, a couple of very real issues in this race that have not been discussed by either candidate are the following: the fact that women make approximately 60%, black or white, that men do. Also that the rates of Black women infected with HIV are through the roof. (Clinton's come close; Obama, no cigar.) The candidate who brought these things up on the road, in a few of his speeches? Edwards. He is also the one who consistently has spoken about the poor, who, in this country, are mostly white and female, if they're not children. A pity he dropped out when he did -- maybe we could get back to the actual issues of the race, as in can either of these candidates beat John McCain, who is stumping in Iraq today?
  • Posted By:
    meta at 03/18/2008 1:49:19 PM
    Comment:
    Does that mean that the white upper-class feminism has finally been shattered as a legislative and social body? Is this an indication that the suffering which led to later triumphs of white upper-class feminism is no longer the default category for all critique of American culture? Am I allowed to even say "white upper-class feminism" and not face reprisal because I am not a "white upper-class" feminist? And don't get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are white, from the upper-class and feminist. I just don't bring them around all that often.
  • Posted By:
    kamitche at 03/18/2008 1:32:52 PM
    Comment:
    There is so much to say about the dangerous games that these 3 women are playing. I'm glad to see that much of it got said here. Thanks!
  • Posted By:
    NIGGER HATER at 03/18/2