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عالم المرأة والأناقة

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دليل
شات

تحميل
توبيكات

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شات |
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توبيكات |
دليل |
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فوتوشوب |
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شات |
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_____

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توبيكات
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إسلامية
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برامج وكمبيوتر

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اسلامية
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الصحف
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شات خليجي

دردشة سعودية

قصص

روايات

العاب سونيك

العاب ماريو

العاب مكياج

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قدم
رياضة

سيارات

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شعر

خواطر

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أدبية
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روايات

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عالم
حواء
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تسريحات

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طبخ

ديكور
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جوال

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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
الشات
|
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|
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|
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|
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|
شات
 خليجي
|

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|
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|
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|
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صور
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|
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|

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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|

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|
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|

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No doubt in this.If you got the chance to talk with your president then you must discuss with president.
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We black folks could learn a little from Jews about how to rise up out of slavery, and treasure and develop our culture. We could learn respect for intellect, the value of supporting our families and most of all, how to address self-hatred and the shame and anger that motivates people like Rev. Wright, Justice Thomas, Michael Steele, and the entire gangsta community.

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I only want to say , we should give the first priority to peace of human kind.
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It was Professor Obama who turned up at the president's latest news conference in the East Room—cerebral, methodical, and eager to elucidate the details of policy. Lecturing the country about its problems, from the economy to race relations, Obama argued that his ambitions for overhauling the health insurance system not only would improve medical care but would also drive down costs for families, businesses, and the federal government.

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Asked if he's spoken to his former parishioner since he become President, Wright told David Squires, "them Jews ain't going to let him talk to me.

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Well they should honestly get the chance to talk to the president right? After all they need to discuss with him a serious matter not just waste the president time. Plus the president should be interested as well to talk about peoples rights since he promised to serve the people. He should give some parenting tips to people in needs.

The man speaks truth and these white jews don't like to hear the truth. Especially coming from a educated black man.

Someone said "Rev. Wright is happy to remain stuck in our nation past".....um, isn't that what these white jews are still doing today? Racism is still alive today. To me, they are still stuck with the so called good ol' boy mentality. And it aint going nowhere. So I see no wrong in what wright is saying.

So in other words you will not make anymore excuses about white racism in the white jewish community...That is good..BTW white racism in white jewish circles complicates my reality and daily existence because I work with many white jewish professionals.

There is nothing complex about racism, antisemitism, bigotry what is tragic about it is people lile you who make deflections and excuses in part no doubt driven by a sense of sham that such decay is present in your community.

Again make a difference and stop making excuses...

You love BHO but you try de hate his master for twenty years. As he said, he is not a politician and had nothing to sell with a politically correct tone. ..This man is great!

As I said, impasse. We can go on psychoanalyzing each other indefinitely, but what we're clearly not doing is communicating. Your insistence that antisemitism is only a "religious issue" shows a fairly significant lack of understanding of what antisemitism really is. Not entirely your fault: it's a complex phenomenon, and if it's not a factor that complicates your experience, there's no particular reason you should devote much time to thinking about it.

By the way, a point of evidence is only "documented" if it can be independently verified. What you've supplied is anecdote. Might be true, might be representative, might not -- can't tell.

Feel free to have the last word. Since all we're doing here is repeating the same points without evolving the discussion any, I don't see much to be gained by going on.

Great analysis DMB62.

I was sadden to hear of his "them Jews" comments. I would think that a man with his education and experience as a minister would be able to express himself with more diplomacy. I was hoping that he would be able to overcome the unfair media treatment he received during the campaign. This time it seems as though he's shot himself in the foot. He can forget it if he wants to get back into Obama's good graces. He seems a little obsessed and needs to get over it.

I was going to use the exact same words to define your posture in here and your comments..Clearly your reaction to my posts about "Shvartza" in the jewish venues has made you defensive..

I have never posted that Blacks are not antisemitic ..please do not put your anger and shame into my words... You seem intend on making it a religious issue and I on the other hand have documented for you that my Black jewish friends have expressed a view it is about RACE not religion... This truth about white racism in white jewish communities is real and must be confronted. I have no intentions of retreating nor being pc around my white jewish associates with regard to this issue.

One would hope after the tragic event of a Black man being murdered by a white racist at the national holocaust museum white jewish people like you would step up and confront the white racism in your community and stop the usage of racist terms like the yiddish term of 'shvartza' the "N" word jews invoke all to often..

Step up and make a difference instead of shallow excuses and circular denials..

Well, we're at a pretty little impasse here. You appear convinced that the problem in the relationship between these communities is entirely on one side, and yet you display little to no understanding -- or willingness to understand -- the experience of those on the other side of the fence. I'm not so sure the friction is as one-sided as you want to believe it is. I'd ask you to explain the difference, for instance, between your complaint about "schvartze" vs. my complaint about "hymie" (I notice that your response on this point is pure deflection), but since your position seems rooted pretty firmly in a stance of denial, I don't see much point. Certainly, others who have contributed to this discussion don't seem to deny that some antisemitism exists within the black community, even as some racism exists within the Jewish community.

It is valiant of you to persevere in your struggle with the white Jewish community -- I wish you well in your campaign. I fear, however, that without a readiness to engage in a bit introspection from time to time, you are unlikely to bring much to a discussion that would change many minds.

Your defensiveness is similar to the posture many of my jewish associates have displayed ..Perhaps this sad truth hurts?...I also found it interesting how you like them invoked a kneejerk reply by surfacing the hymie context again another deflective and defensive posture..

BTW my Black jewish friends are religious people I told them I was not surprised by this racism in his temple becuase at end of day since most jewish people in the states are white what drives the disconnect between jews and Black folks is not religion but race and white racists in jewish venues same as white racists in WASPS venues..I really see no difference both groups again at end of day are white folks...

I hope the white jewish community come to grip with this " N" issue.. It is a nasty little undercurrent and whisper campaign that must stop..I intend to continue my discussion regarding this issue whenever I confront it in white jewish circles of course..

As a result of Dr. Wright speaking truth and being true to our struggle, true to his God, true to his native land, he has been ostracized, overly politicized and demonized. All of this of course perpetuated by none other than mainstream media, whose biggest business is promoting anything including political policies and politicians that profit them most.

The words that Rev. Dr. Wright spoke when Fox News and CNN decided to shine the world spot light on him and his congregations are the words that Dr. Wright has been speaking for years—nothing has changed, I’ve been hearing his sermons for better than a decade. Based on the reaction from the media and the government, it is obvious that not much (in terms of being truthful about the race issue) has changed in America either.

Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright is not the crazed, narcissistic, and militant maniac that the media has portrayed him to be. Those of us who have over the years listened to and agree with a lot of what he says, although not all of what he says, must understand that he like so many others Paul Robeson, James Baldwin, Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and the list goes on is simply a man unafraid to speak truth to power. The consequences of which is martyrdom.

Your intrepid research technique is impressive. I can promise you I have never used the expression "schvartze" (or any other pejorative insult in any language) to denote members of any ethnic community. While you may or may not find that revealing (or even convincing), what would be revealing is to know: did any of your white Jewish friends return the favor? Were they at all interested to know whether you or anyone you know had ever used the expression "hymie," for instance?

Or were these friends less eager to embarrass you from some assumed position of holier-than-thou superiority than you were to embarrass them?

Also, I do have to wonder: why would your black Jewish friends continue to attend services at a synagogue where they are treated so crassly by their fellow Jews?

Way too much has been made of my mention of Jewish involvement. My only point was that from a people who has also been enslaved, and manages to honor their liberation in a way that emphasizes positive values instead of blind hatred, much can be learned. Of course every group is made up of individuals, as are we black folk, so I was only referring to the Passover holiday specifically in that instance. And, I don't want us to blend in with white people. I think our rainbow of colors enriches the human palette, and I'm always happy to give white people my black perspective when I think I need to.

I couldn't at the time think of another group who had parallel experience for that comparison. And, sadly, there are many examples of Holocausts, and they go on. Its awful to even think of a "worst" one. I actually thought Wright was dead on with his earlier screed of "damn America", because there have been a number of deliberate evils against us. I just think he was totally off in this case. How insulting to think that anyone would tell President Obama who he may see! Sadly, he has given his power over to his darker instincts. And Clarence Thomas is just the saddest self-hater I'ver ever seen, he's just sad. Thank goodness he just inflicts that sadness in the court. I like that AG Holder wants to see more frank racial dialogue, since that's the American way of resolving issues. On the one hand, folks have short memories about why we're so (angry, mistrustful, poor). On the other hand, we haven't even educated ourselves on the deeper meanings so we don't perpetuate those disadvantages.

And, agotee, I agree with so much that you have said. You are right that entrepreneurship isn't for everyone, but my hope is that they help bring the rest of us along. I love it when white people want me to explain what the "buy black" movement means, since they think that's just racist and miss the value that has for our entrepreneurs. I fear you might be right that progress for us needs to come from the top. I hate that gansta is stealing our culture and your artist son can help get us out of that. However, artists are almost always poor and that's another discussion. And companies, as I've said, don't hire on merit usually, but on familiarity. At the risk of igniting another firestorm, in my experience the military is much more colorblind in rewarding merit. I know how controversial that sounds, but I personally have seen great things for black people there, especially when they already have the education and can go in as officers. It's been great for my family at the enlisted and officer levels. Read Colin Powell's autobiography - he talks about all the issues we are having here.

It is a term used quite often in many white jewish circles according to my Black jewish friends who worship at a local jewish temple.....I of course was not surprised nor disappointed, when I discussed this term with many of my white jewish associates they were embrassed and not really willing to discuss it many of them kept trying to deflect and talk about WASPS and thier racism...

I did not allow my white jewish friends to deflect... I asked them how many times they invoked the word.....Thier hesitancy was revealing..

No question, the social dynamics of how strangers of different ethnicity confront one another are complicated and easily poisoned by mistrust. Certainly, context is key; I suspect that if you were to find your way to a synagogue service one Friday evening, you would find a much different reception then occurs when you pass strangers on the sidewalk. Like you, I'd rather live in a world where no one felt the need to move a purse out of reach or cross the street. And also like you, I suspect, I have no idea how we get there from here.

I'm not so naive as to suggest that there is not racism among Jews. I think the notion that a special bond exists between blacks and Jews in the U.S. is predicated these days entirely upon nostalgia for a moment, long since passed, when at least some members of both communities understood there to be a shared purpose between them. For me, evidence that whatever bond may have existed was long broken hit home hard one night more than twenty years ago, when I sat in a church in Buffalo, New York, and heard Louis Farrakhan, preaching to a congregation of nearly three thousand, declare that the presence of a Jewish hospital in every city meant that blacks were "forced to go to hospitals run by people who want to experiment on you." No behind-the-palm whispering there. No one batted an eye. Maybe that's speaking *something* to power, but whatever it is, it isn't truth.

You see no meaningful difference between American Jews and other white American communities, and it's not for me to dispute the assessment that arises from your day-to-day experience. Yet it remains the case that some broad, substantive differences do obtain. Not least among these is that Jews, across the economic spectrum, are second only to blacks as the nation's most reliably Democratic voting bloc. This was true even in spite of the blatant, badly misguided Israel-pandering of the Bush years, and remained true during the 2008 election, in spite of attempts to peel Jewish voters away from Barack Obama through vile whispering campaigns that attempted to tie him to the aforementioned Farrakhan. (And, yes, it is true in spite of that YouTube video of a bunch of drunken young American Jews in Israel embarrassing themselves and their community with their outspoken contempt for the President, a contempt they've earned no right hold, let alone express.)

We are talking about racism. We are also talking about antisemitism, which also exists as a fact. It was Rev. Wright who insisted that "them Jews" are the villains preventing him from having access to the President whose candidacy he nearly destroyed -- a charge, by the way, that belittles the President with the suggestion that he is not in control of his own administration. Wright's "clarification" that he meant not Jews, exactly, but only "Zionists" (i.e., that substantial majority of Jews who share the aspiration for a Jewish homeland, Jewish self-defense and Jewish self-determination) doesn't change the substance of his accusation one iota -- all it does is lay bare the fact that there is increasingly little daylight between politically correct anti-Zionism and good old-fashioned, blame-the-Jews-first antisemitism.

David, I hope you read this and understand a bit more of what I have to say. Maybe you'd never understand the African American condition, and I'd never understand the Jewish people. Maybe there is too much fear and distrust in this climate. But despite it all I seek objectivity. Your people are united and successful, it is the overwhelming opinion of the Jewish race. But I am sure you have your criminals, drug addicts and general underachiever among you. African Americans are fragmented and the overwhelming opinion of us is that we are lazy, unmotivated, liars, thieves and addicts. The opinions for both races is formed from media.
But when I speak I speak from personal experience, not from media perception. Say for instance, when I go around cetain people and they keep moving and checking their purses, etc, etc. And it happens over and over again. What will I deduce. Am I making any sense here? The term racism was coined because it was observed that one people consistently acted negatively toward another because of the color of their skin. My question is, how different are Jewish people towards blacks in this society for us to believe there is a special bond between them. I have never experienced that bond, or any overtures of it. And i think I should because I work in close proximity to too many of them. There should be some indication of it. It does not exist, yet I am told to believe this despite my personal experience. I am sure every black person you have met does not exhibit one unifromed negative value in favor of racism. But in my case since racism is pervasive in this society-albeit a sickness- and whites are the ones who suffer from it most, and Jews are white, why won't they suffer from it too, in the most part? And that is okay, as long as I am not forced to acknowledge something that is untrue as a special bond. Now when we speak of exceptions to a rule we all know it exists, but in the minority.
This assumed coalition among Jews and whites is illusory for the most part. It happens only on the most radical grass roots level. The fringe. I cannot give account of my experience without naming the opposite party. Sure I am rambling because I am open and still hoping that all that the eyes see might be partially deceiving.But I cannot be irrational about certain facts. I cannot discount my experiences to please anyone. And I insist that I am not anti.semetic.Maybe I needed to explain my self more carefully as I am now. .
I am not maligning Jews. We are talking about racism. Racism exists as a fact. Remember my comment was in response to what someone had written

agotee: "As individuals, I havent had great experiences with them, and when you meet people who every time exhibit the same qualities and are from the same social/racial group, you form opinions."

As concise and clear a rationalization for racism as I've ever seen. Am I allowed to say the same thing about my personal experiences with, oh, black people? No? I didn't think so. (Beside, it wouldn't be true, any more than I believe it is really true of your experience.)

agotee: "The jewish cause is not more important tham any other cause. And at that they are going to find people who disagrees with them. It is the flavor of life. They cannot cite everyone anti-semetic for disagreeing."

Well, I do cite as antisemitic the implication that I believe the "jewish cause" (whatever that is) is more important than any other cause. And I certainly cite as antisemitic the blatantly racialist comment I highlighted above. But disagreeing with me? No, there's nothing necessarily antisemitic about that.

It's pretty clear you have a lifetime's worth of deep insight into the terrific challenges that continue to face the black community in American society. I can't help but have enormous respect for that. Your insight into what the Jewish experience has been, however, is pretty thin and is riddled with ugly stereotypes. If that's the way you want to think about Jews, that's your business. What I don't understand is what you think it is that differentiates the way you think about Jews from any other species of antisemitism.

wellsnet, I know this is not a back and forth forum, but when we speak of the jewish people who are we speaking of? their political and activist bodies or them as individuals? As individuals, I havent had great experiences with them, and when you meet people who every time exhibit the same qualities and are from the same social/racial group, you form opinions. Jews get offended when they hear this, so many blacks speak it behind their palms. Are we crazy? Beyond that, self hatred and shame does not apply to Wright, maybe anger yes, but it is not misplaced. His people been through a holucast and he sees the continuance of it in education, housing, employment, etc, etc. Clarence Thomas fights for no one but himself. Calling Wright a mad man and a bigot does not sell to the average african American. We feel the frustration every day. I have a son raised in the inner city educated college, but cannot find a job except with the city agencies. He is interested in other things but private companies never employs him. There is something to be said about that. Much more, but I'd hold my peace. Not every one is cut out to be an entrepreneur. It is not the overwhelming answer.
We keep hearing of the jewish response in the civil rights movement, give us advanced and developed paticipation now! And what if they did? There is not much data to prove they did more than any other white group. Bu this is constantly touted to somewhat quiet any form of discension from blacks. Lennard Jeffries learnt the hard way when all hedid was use text books. The jewish cause is not more important tham any other cause. And at that they are going to find people who disagrees with them. It is the flavor of life. They cannot cite everyone anti-semetic for disagreeing. And about intellectualism, you said we can learn from jewish intellectualism is what i was responding to.
We cannot learn anything from the jews more than we can learn from any other white "skinned" group. If you cvan blend in, no one knows you ethnic background. WE do not have that luxury. I agree that everything starts at home, but if at bottom our economic situation changes, (and make no mistake, it must change from top down,) our families would change. You think a mother who is well paid and respected is going to not give her child the best. A feeling of well being pervades a people when their place in the world is not questioned, is not threathened, is not abbhored. It trickles downward and outward. If you think that the individual effort from you and me is going to make up for the years of trampling and wholesale brutalizing of a people, you are mistaken. I am an intrepreneur, but my son is an artist, It is what he wants to do. We know what it is to be an educated young man among hudlums. But they did not have mothers like me. And it goes on and on. When you say its tiem to pick ourselves up, it means nothing to those who need to be picked up, because those who can, does. And those who are down, can't hear you. But when there's a major rumbling in America, they cannot but hear it. No one puts this monumental burden on individual families as we expect from the black family. The other ethnic groups go about their daily lives in full faith that all thing are working in their favor. their children go to school with full expectaions, they are buffered by a society, a neighbourhood, a governement they are certain would not take undue advantage of them because of color or race. We a re not sure of that. We are ever on vigil, on edge and distrusting. For good reason. The past. And most of us barely understanding our deep psychic disorder, are expected to change it? Laws governs a society and tries to create a comfortabel environ for its people, but racism circumvents all those laws and reaches the heart of the black population. 3/5ths of a man. The answer is not in we(blacks) the people, but the entire society.

Dear agotee,
First, thanks for your comments. In terms of advanced education, I think it's legitimate to use Wright and Thomas on the same side as a comparison. I think they illustrate the point that education is a way out of poverty, but I too am disappointed by the inequity in employment among educated blacks, particularly men. I think one of the things we need to realize is that no one will give us anything, not even a job that we may think we have earned. I think we need to develop much more self-reliance and understand that the best way to build wealth is through self-employment and enterprise.

From my personal experience in corporate America, I can tell you that the #1 way folks get hired is not by qualification, but by familiarity, going with someone you know and feel comfortable with. GM took that to an extreme by only hiring neighbors, classmates, family members,etc., and completely losing track of the fact they had a product to sell.

Back to the role of intellect in the black community. I am one of the few who is not sure that formal college education is the best thing for us. Many folks equate (confuse) passing tests with education, and a degree with knowledge. It seems as though we stop inquiring once a degree is involved.

You completely make my point that, at the merest mention of intellect, or another culture, we go to "white skin". You completely missed my Spike Lee reference (from School Daze, see it. See Do the Right Thing while you're at it), my wish that we promote our own culture instead of fixating on gangsta. It might do you some good to do a little study of our history instead of swallowing that self-hatred and mind-numbing pap that folks are happy we amuse ourselves with. Our children are suffering in school because our families are fractured (talk to a school teacher) and folks with means move out. It is simply too much to deal with. And by the way, try being the smart kid in the inner city - you'd better know how to fight. Ask me how I know.

No one will solve our problems, no matter who is at cause. There are, however, many people who can help by example, and help with means. But, like a drug addict, we can only become strong when we admit we need help and then WE do what we need to improve our situation. No one will do that for us.

The Root is one of the most valuable forums we have, and I'm thrilled to have your response.
No offense, but I'm not interested in looking up your email.

wellnet you're saying we lack respect for intellectualism, you lump wright with thomas? You think ther is a fomula on how to get away from the stigma of slavery and move "rapidly" foward other than blending in, getting white skin. You assumer that the intellectual body among African Americans are not sufficiently informed and need to learn from the jews? And we are tired of support in the civil rights movement eing thrown at blacks. We want to know why our educated black men are finding ot hard to get paying jobs, and why our schools are failing our inner city childen? Especially in New York where they can hepl us as they did in the civil rights movement. Am I in trouble for saying this? Please do not go look up my address!

Anti-Semitism among black people is wrong in so many ways:

1) The Jewish community was absolutely supportive and instrumental during the Civil Rights movement. On the ground in voter drives, providing medical and legal services to us when no one would, the list goes on.
2) Judaism totally respects and understands on a deep level the cost slavery exacts from a people and a culture. Does Passover ring a bell? One of the very highest Jewish holidays. Rev. Wright should go to a Seder and hear for himself.

3) White folks in the US that are anti-Semitic love to see us be anti-Semitic. They know it divides a dangerous coalition. Ever meet a white person who was anti-Semitic who wasn't racist? Who exactly does the KKK hate? The Nazi party?

4) We black folks could learn a little from Jews about how to rise up out of slavery, and treasure and develop our culture. We could learn respect for intellect, the value of supporting our families and most of all, how to address self-hatred and the shame and anger that motivates people like Rev. Wright, Justice Thomas, Michael Steele, and the entire gangsta community.

In the words of the great Spike Lee, "Wake Up!"

Speaking truth to power is frightening! And you are never right! And worse if you're all wrong.Either way you're destined to look crazy! For me, I'd wait till the sore festers and boil over before I say something. We live in a time where if you're smart and the climate is generous to you, (meaning you blend in)you can manipulate opinions to no end. Here's the fomula:If you live in the most influential city and you can get hold of more than half of the media you can affect policy. You can use the weaknesses of society as a backdrop against your goal. Such as; racism, inequality, employment, violence, etc, etc. You can one day make any of these seem an epedemic, another day you can send it to oblivion. Depends on what part it plays in your theme. You can subtly highlight your agenda above everyone else till it takes a preeminent place. You can coerce the masses to support you by making them believe there is something in it for them. You can heighten fear to support your ideals. You can use every means available to cenetralize your theme: entertainment, sports, medicine, social issues, and lastly political issues, which is by far the greatest. You can have your theme running meticulously through all of the above, unseen to the naked untrained eye. Becaue in truth and FACT, where are the ignorant masses educated? Through radio, TV and newspaper. From these are the ignorant masses educated. And who owns these, one owns the world. Can you think of any people in any influential city controlling these. I'd be surprised if there is such a thing. But if you do find it, Let me know. Yet still keep it to yourself. Maybe you're not the first to know. Maybe manifestos are written about it. Maybe it's how power is traditionally gained.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a trailblazer, an iconoclastic cleric whose efforts to bring faith and opportunity to the South Side of Chicago are legendary. And, as with most iconoclasts, the line between leadership/advocacy and demagoguery is thin, easily transgressed and more obvious to others than to him.

Yes, Jews have an influence in this country and this world that is disproportionate to their numbers. Yes, such outsized influence can at times be wielded poorly. Yes, virtually every other group is jealous of this reality. Yes, what Rev. Wright said was as potentially partially true as it was unfortunate.

What this situation makes clear is the need to be more careful - and not politically correct - in how we parse complex, multi-faceted issues publicly (as well as hinting that our current media structure may be ill-suited to assisting in this endeavor).

The Reverend is right that he has lost his access to Obama for the time being if not permanently. And for good reason: when he had his moment in the spotlight last year, it became more about him than about his charge's historic mission. As such, he became a distraction and an albatross for someone whose success he was supposed to be nurturing. Apparently he didn't realize that the student had grown beyond the teacher ... and he certainly didn't intend to let go gracefully.

Don't get me wrong, much of what Rev. Wright has said - when taken in its full context and not in the mercenarily abbreviated treatment that it has received in all mainstream media - makes sense, especially to his constituency (including the many poor and working class folks who attended his church by the thousands on Sundays). For example, one of his more infamous quotes ("God damn America") could be taken as a restatement of Malcolm X's famous "chickens coming home to roost" comment of four decades earlier. The pastor's decrying of American foreign (and, for that matter, domestic) policy is not as unusual as the purposely abbreviated clip that has been endlessly looped would seem to suggest. In fact, one could make a credible argument that some of his advocated positions are more authentically conservative than the those of the administration during whose tenure many of them were uttered.

The same may also be said of his performance at the National Press Club after the controversy broke during the Democratic primaries. If you watch and listen to the whole thing, the pastor's elucidation of the prophetic tradition of his denomination of the Christian faith is both revealing and instructive. We could all learn something about the role of faith and the black church in the American experience (and especially the African-American variation thereof) by appreciating his observations.

The problem came when he when asked questions, in response to which he demonstrated an egocentricity and preening sense of superiority that is inappropriate for a minister (even one who may have been right, as he surely believed himself to be). This is the hubris that he appears to continue to evidence, now tinged with a bitterness due to his having been cast aside by his now triumphant protege.

This is clearly a case where the Rev., who is used to being followed adoringly and uncritically by his congregation, finds himself out of his depth amongst a media that is neither understanding of nor sympathetic to his uniquely nuanced view of the world. So, when he begins labeling groups, he becomes (rightly) subject to the same criticism that any other labeler (of whatever philosophical persuasion) does. And because he is a man of the cloth, this wears less well on him than on others. Simply put, we have higher expectations of him, and we should.

Does the Rev. raise some important points? Yes. Do they matter? Yes. But two more important things are also true:

First, it matters not only what you say but how you say it, so he must give far more care to the crafting of his messages if he wants them to be taken seriously. As someone once characterized it for me, he may be right, but, due to his poor packaging of his communication, he's not effective.

Second, it's not about him, so Rev. Wright has to be willing to follow the example of his erstwhile protege. Assuming a leadership or advocacy position places certain constraints upon the messenger. President Obama is indeed a politician and the minister is a spritual leader, but that does not mean that he has sole claim to the truth, which is how he seems to conduct himself.

To put a finer point on it, the ethnic cleansing to which Rev. Wright refers is indeed a tragedy in need of address, but in the fullness and breadth of the issues with which the president has to deal, Obama alone gets to decide its priority. As such, then, the Rev. is an advocate, and therefore it is incumbent upon him to craft his message to increase the likelihood of its being heard and appreciated (in order for it to achieve its goal of influence and persuasion). It's this imperative that seems to escape Rev. Wright. Apparently he doesn't realize that those of us in the larger congregation whom he is now trying to influence aren't as uncritical or questioning. Nor is the person whom he really wants to influence, his former mentee.

"One fact is undeniable any criticism of Israel is an automatic accusation of Anti-Semitism."

This is the one of the biggest lies being circulated in the whole debate. The fact that is "undeniable" is that *some* criticism of Israel is indeed driven by antisemitism, and deserves to be called out when it is. There is in fact a great deal of legitimate criticism of Israeli policy (much of it by Israelis, much of it by American Jews) that has nothing to do with antisemitism. To attack "Zionists" as such, without regard to the actual positions actual Zionists may hold with respect to actual Israeli policy -- as Wright seems comfortable to do -- is to attack the Jewish aspiration for a homeland, for self-defense and self-determination *as such.* And, guess what -- that *is* antisemitism.

What Wright said is no different than what he said on the "infamous" DVD. He said Israel is wrong on how they treat the Palestinians. .actually Wright has been consistent from day one. One fact is undeniable any criticism of Israel is an automatic accusation of Anti-Semitism. Most people knew that he was speaking about Zionist .Reverend Jeremiah Wright clarifies statements made about Obama and decries the Holocaust Museum tragedy in an exclusive interview on Make it Plain with Mark Thompson on SIRIUS LEFT. "Let me just say, like Hillary, I misspoke. Let me just say Zionists," Wright said, before going on to delineate the difference between them and "responsible Jewish persons." He went on to discuss the Israeli government and the power of the Zionist lobby in the U.S. government, saying he was basing his words on the work of Jewish historian Marc Ellis.

If you have read some of the speeches Obama has given to AIPAC you would see why he said what he said i.e “The Bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever” Forever Obama? No matter what happens? O.k Obama’s chief of staff is Rahm Emmanuel (right hand man) is fierce Zionist and everyone knows this or at least I hope so. People don’t want to look at the weight of Wright’s words but only “them Jews” dismissing the mentioning of ethnic cleansing and Darfur is confusing to me. It's hard for me to believe that any person who lives in this so-called democracy is being told they can’t critique the President’s polices. It seems that people feel Wright has less of the right to say what he pleases. There are only a few black folks on earth (imo) who will tell what they think and let the crap hit the fan and he is one of them. It’s funny how a man who knows Obama 20+ years can be argued down by those who never met Obama and doesn’t “know him”. Again, Wright has been consistent and when Obama said he didn’t know Wrights views that kinda hard to believe, we do and I have never been to Trinity. I am beginning to truly realize that the American Public DOES NOT like consistency, but prefers people to say one thing in public and another behind close doors.

*What* on earth happened to this man? This is supposed to be an intelligent, multi-degreed, multi-lingual? man. And this is how he chooses to express himself on the public beema? What does he hope to gain? Is he angry that he does not have the ear of the man whom he thought he nurtured? This is truly sad; to see someone who has made such contributions to his community (far and wide) to destroy his legacy like this.

He doesnt need to be preaching to lost sheep as someone else mentioned, he's a lost sheep himself. The Prez had him pegged when he said (paraphrasing) that he is stuck in the past and cannot see any hope of a better future...that mind of mindset is dangerous in any number of ways.

"Yet Rev. Wright says something similar (in a less tactful way) during a time when Israeli/Jewish lobbyists aren't even afraid of being seen intermingling in the American political process and he's a kook."

So ... Jews *should* be "afraid of being seen intermingling in the American political process"? Nice.

Well.... its no secret that Jews have major influence in Washington and in Hollywood...I pity the fool that intentionally or unintentionally gets on their bad side. One must pick and choose their words very carefully when referring to Jews or risk being labeled an anti-semite. It looks like Rev. Wright' intent was to point out the fact that the Jews would not take lightly President Obama talking to a quote unquote, anti-semite like Rev. Wright.

My words of wisdom to Rev. Wright come from my dear mother: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

For a minister to say this... wow.

um hey Rev. FYI Jesus was Jewish...Wow

Malcolm X had many of the Jewish power brokers of his day pegged for what they were in a time when they were more secretive about their presence and people were not accusing him of being some kind of a conspiratorial nut. Yet Rev. Wright says something similar (in a less tactful way) during a time when Israeli/Jewish lobbyists aren't even afraid of being seen intermingling in the American political process and he's a kook. Riiiiiight.

"Wow...blame the Jews huh?"

Are Jews, as a whole, the blame? Obviously not, since I did state that "Maybe (Wright's) language needs tweaking in regards to Jews and Isreal". Then again, the current plight of Palestine clouds the vision at times. Heck, I'll shoot at the hip when seeing that crap! The recent video of some Isreali citizens and their contempt of Obama's stance on the matter doesn't help, either. Is this a reflection of ALL of Isreal and Jews? No...

There are forces in and outside of the so-called Middle East who are hampering the peace progress all for either financial gain, "religious reasons", or sick pleasure caused by the previous two...and yes, there are lobbyists around D.C. trying to dip their hands in the money-pot and getting into the ears of politicians, Obama included. Tweak Wright's comments and you'll probably get that statement...and I'm not even religious! ;)

I also said...("some Arabs in power HAVE been switch-hitting!"). This statement means that there have been Arabs in the region acting as double-agents (supporting Isreal AND saving face with Arab opposition while raking in the cash, leaving the rest to their "beliefs"). 60 Minutes did a piece on one such character who became a billionaire for various reasons, all the while heading back and forth between Isreal and the Arab world (he was found dead w/ his memoirs "missing"!).

I hope that clears that up since the article did state something close to what I intended...

"While you make some points worth taking up, critiquing and considering. Israel is not a blameless victim on the world stage in the same way Palestine is not blameless. Should more attention be paid to the complexity, on both sides, of the situation in Gaza? Absolutely. But when you bracket your opinions with "them Jews", it's pretty much gonna go over like a lead balloon."

LOL!

I respect that Rev. Wright has done some good in his career as a minister and that he served this country well in the Marines. That being said, the man has definitely took a ride on the crazy train a time or two. I'm not saying he's wrong 100% of the time but lately he's been definitely striking out and not hitting homers. He's making himself look crazy with some of the outlandish stuff he says.

Just like Joe (that's not his real name) the Plumber (did you know this fool has a book out???), I want Rev. Wright to step back out of the media glare and get back to his REAL job. Please, don't try to extend your 15 minutes. Go and preach the word of the Lord to the lost sheep.

This guy again, man, he's annoying. Go home already , I never liked this guy at all, and never defended him because I saw right though in the beginning.

"I'll stick my neck out and say that if you study some history as well as current events, what Wright has said also skirts the realm of truth."

Wow...blame the Jews huh? I'll also stick my head out; Rev. Wright is trying to regain his 15 minutes of fame.

I'll stick my neck out and say that if you study some history as well as current events, what Wright has said also skirts the realm of truth. Maybe the language needs tweaking in regards to Jews and Isreal (some Arabs in power HAVE been switch-hitting!), but I'm not ruling out some of what Wright has stated.

Just because some of the wrongs are in the past-tense doesn't mean the problem is 100% solved...

Sorry to say, as was Barack Obama, I was a defender of Reverend Wright when the national spotlight was first put on him for his infamous 9/11 comments due to the fact that having heard and read them in full context, I knew that they had been quoted and rebroadcasted without any context provided. At that time, I gave him the benefit of doubt until no doubt was left the next time he opened his mouth during last year's National Press Breakfast when full context was indeed provided.

Reverend Wright's ignorant public comments today are nothing but the further self-repudiation of himself. He is obviously out of touch with today's social reality, is happy to remain stuck in our nation's past, and it is apparently beyond him to imagine or hope for a better future for anyone including himself.

Thus, like for any publicly self-professed extreme left or right wing religious ideologist, it would not bother me to have Reverend Wright closely monitored in sad anticipation of him going beyond hateful words and speech to even sadder actual hateful actions.

Nor do I believe would Barack Obama disagree with this assessment.

No Doubt Wright Wrong!